I think the best way to measure them is all to use the the same rolling road on the same day its always going to be tricky to compare figure The 16v rolling road valver days at stealth a few years ago were a great idea Perhaps we should see if we can get one going ???
i think the best way to measure them is to put them all on the same track/road in a big long line and then see which is quickest
Power costs pounds, it's not a vdub but with a few bolt ons you'll see 220+ lapping with faster more powerful cars and doin 13 sec 1/4's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc5R0FYAH8Q I hate Honda's[:^(]
I on the other hand love Hondas.Many dont like the fact that you need to rev the tits off them, but anyone who has owned a fast Honda will agree that there isn't many engines out there like it.A company that can get 100bhp/litre quite regularly is no mean feat(sp).While I hate the EP3 CTR, with 2.0 200bhp it is better round the track standard than any of its competitors, and still is.EK9 CTR is an absolute weapon, and was made purely for the track in mind.DC2 Teg claimed to be the finiest handling FWD car there is, and all have at least 100bhp/litre that is perfectly usable on the road and track. I got my VW after having a Civic and resigned myself to the fact that basically, without doing something major like engine conversion, then I'd really struggle to match a Honda with the same amount of money spent. Most VW owners hated Honda, but I think its a bit of jealousy, and people should respect them more for what they really are, and thats far ahead of VW in engineering terms. As far as the 180-200bhp question is, best bet would be to get an ABF, get it to 170-180bhp, strip the car and get lightened flwheel and maybe a shorter final drive, then you will be able to stick with the big boys, on the road and on the track.Goodluck for motorway driving though lol
Yeah agree with the honda thing , sure i am impressed by them a few of my mates have them and they are excellent , i could own one if i wanted , but just not interested in owning one. Much prefer a mk2 and the dub clubs and scene New Tec is very good
I would be up for organizing a 16v rolling road shootout at stealth if they will do it Perhaps early next year We could have any VAG vehicle with a 16v in it, so seats Mk2s, Mk3s , lupos etc probably need 15-20 cars WHat do you guys reckon ,
LOL - I was waiting for that comment, and surprisingly for me, I won't bite. Much. While I conceed that you do have to drive a VR6 car differently due to its weight, I think depending on what you want to use it for then a VR6 mk2, set up correctly (and thats the bit people usually fall down on) will be more than enough fun on the roads and at track days and give you that 180 - 200 bhp headline figure you were quoting. It will be pretty easy to do also. If you built 2 200bhp cars, one with a 16v engine and one with a VR6 and raced them at the level that Rob T does, or probably even at a fully track car dedicated level, the 16v would probably be the quicker car. Infact I would probably conceed a 16v with 180 could beat a 200 bhp VR6. I think it would be quite an interesting race to watch though. One pullinn away in teh corners, while the other would reel it back in down the straights etc..... (they NEED to make a VR6 class in the MK2 Championship ) BUT, and imho it is quite a big but, you buy an ODB2 VR6 and put it in, 100% standard you will have 190bhp to play with. Get rid of the cats and a better air filter and you may eek out a few more BHP to knock on 200bhp door. I have built an ODB1 2.8 with those mods and 268 cams and iirc it saw 214bhp on its highest RR day, but 210 was the figure it was usually close to. 174bhp is the standard figure of an ODB1 2.8 VR6 You buy an ABF and do the same basic mods and whats the most you can expect see? 160? 40bhp and more torque across the entire rev range is a massive difference and you would have to spend quite a lot of time effort and money to get a NA 16v near 200bhp. Oh, and then theres the Noise. The Noise I tell you!!! Its addictive, which is an issue when fuel prices are what they are, but I can assure you, you can see 30+ mpg out of a mk2 vr6 And if you wanna go crazy and want to throw turbo's into this arguement. Again, VR6 turbo Mind you, theres not many people that have had the opportunity to get first hand expirence of that. And double figure MPG's on VRT's are rare.
With 12+ cars the last thing I need is a Honda LOL This is a budget trackday toy - unlike my trackday Scooby Type RA that eats money - so its got to be cheap. The VR6 sounds ok but I am concerned about the handeling - how much heavier is a VR than say a ABF? Alex
the VR6 boys will tell you not much.....but think about it, if a 4 pot weighs 75kg then a 6 pot will be 112kg - 37kg more.....thats a lot in the nose of a car.....
What's the point, falls on deaf ears - because TSRs red VR6 MK2 Jetta handled like a ****ed up tramp on a washing machine back in the day, the purists just won't 'av it' that they can do ok.
What proved to me that my mk2 VR6 was 'ok' was at the 'ring recently. NigeP who it has to be said is very handy at the NS in his mk2 ABF 16v who also runs the same tyres (R888) came out in it. We approached the fast left up Kesselchen on a balanced throttle, Nige muttered about doing it 'flat' then glanced at the speedo and we were travelling + 20mph than he does in the 'valver' ...... The fact he threw up after we came through Galgenkopf is neither here or there.....
I believe you dont worry Did you really make Nige throw up on a pas lap in GVK or did I read that wrong......im abit drunk
Update on that, running je high comp pistons still not sure what the exact cr is (will try to find the bill for all the engine bits). Also would be up for a rr day at stealth, although starting to wish i hadn't said what the the last results were on it (recipe for emberisment)
You mean me then ? have the balls Gary if your going to say so This is my opinion - I dont think its the way to go but then I have my agenda and you have yours - each to their own - I get sick of hearing "put a vr6 in" rather than tune a good engine all the time - if you had had a better experience with your last valver engine then you may have a different opinion
I think we should all go 1400cc Vauxhaul engines. If John Read can get a smidge over 200bhp they can't be that bad
Hotgolf, i dont think ill be going for that shrick now. after reading what essthree had said about the trouble he had with his digi3 getting very confused if he went more than 268, i wont bother. i have found some 256 cams though (actual intake and exhaust pair lol) so that could be good and there is a throttle body on its way to you as we speak. i might one day have a powerful 16v
