THE Mk2 Golf Definitive Wide Tracking Thread

Discussion in 'Chassis' started by A.N. Other, Aug 17, 2010.

  1. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    This is a Mk2 Golf wide tracking guide, hopefully definitive, or near to!

    We get a lot of threads about this, so this should help with this ever-popular mod.

    It also applies to:
    • 8v & 16v Corrado
    • Mk2/3 Seat Ibiza
    • & can be interpreted to upgrade 4-stud Mk3 Golfs to 5-stud also
    Front suspension:
    Everything in one single column must be used.

    The main decisions to make beforehand are number of wheel studs, the type of outer CVs and the roll bar type you want to use.

    Conversion method you're choosing =>Mk3 Golf 4-studPassat B3 or 4, 4-studGolf 3, 5-stud or Corrado VR6Passat B4, 5-stud (VR6 and ABF only)
    Outcome*4-stud, Mk2 roll bar4-stud, Mk2 roll bar5-stud, MK3 5 stud roll bar5-stud, Mk2 roll bar
    Track width being gained per side (with wishbones level)+21mm+18mm+22/24mm+22/24mm
    Hub to useMK2/3 Golf, MK2/3 Ibiza or Passat B3/4MK2/3 Golf, MK2/3 Ibiza or Passat B3/4Mk3 GTI/VR6, Corrado VR or B4 PassatMk3 GTI/VR6, Corrado VR or B4 Passat
    Which means the outer CVs needed are:as aboveas aboveas aboveas above
    Wishbones to useGolf MK3 4-studPassat B3/4 4-studGolf 3 GTI/VR6 or Corrado VRPassat B4, 5-stud
    Anti roll bar to useMK2/3 Golf, Ibiza Mk2/3, 4-stud ***Mk2/3 Golf, Ibiza Mk2/3, 4-stud **Mk3 GTI/VR6, Corrado VRMK2/3 Golf, Ibiza Mk2/3, 4-stud **
    Brakes (discs and calipers)MK2/3 Golf, Ibiza Mk2/3, 4-studMK2/3 Golf, Ibiza Mk2/3, 4-studMk3 GTI/VR6, Corrado VR or B4 Passat 5-studMk3 GTI/VR6, Corrado VR or B4 Passat 5-stud
    Driveshafts (for large engined cars with 100mm output flanges)4 stud Mk3 Golf 1.8-2.0 8v, but NOT 1.9 N/A dieselPassat 4-studMk3 GTI/VR6, Corrado VRMk3 GTI/VR6, Corrado VR? Passat B4 5-stud
    Driveshafts (for cars with 90mm output flanges)Use Mk3 Golf non-turbo diesel or 020 boxed Mk3 1.6 petrol?not possiblenot possible
    Driveshafts (for cars with 085 gearboxes)Use 1.4 Mk3 Golf?not possiblenot possible
    * Unless you swap hub flanges and re-drill discs - hub flange swapping info here. Note 5-stud discs have different offsets from centre (aside from 5-stud early Passat B3 VR6 discs which are the same offset as 4-stud)

    ** do not use Passat - see here for why)


    Notes:
    • Subframe or steering rack do not need to be changed.
    • You also need to change the track rods, try to get ones from the same model you got your wishbones from matched to your steering rack. So if you have PAS, get PAS ones, if manual, get manual. If this isn't possible try the closest match, so for MK3 5 stud with manual steering try MK3 4 stud manual rods. If rods are too long to set the tracking you can chop them down if required.
    • Track rod ends are the same for all of the above, so do not have to be replaced if they are recent. The track rod gaiters also differ based on model/rack type so make sure you have the right ones. For example manual rod gaiters require rubber bushes to be fitted on the steering rods so make sure you transfer those across if your new rods don't have them.
    • Camber correction bolts may be required depending on ride height and desired geometry settings. Part number N 101 740 02 (1.91+VAT). M12 bolt with 11mm plain section. No (40) here. Try fitting the upper one to start with (ie buy 2), and only the lower one if necessary. H&R ones are £38!
    • 5 stud wishbone & bearing carrier combo yield more castor angle than 4-stud options. Do not mix and match 4 & 5 stud parts, unless the resulting extra castor angle is required! You can modify 4 stud wishbones to accept 5 stud ball joints, while you're there you can correct the extra castor offet with a bit of effort.
    • Passat driveshafts do fit when opting for Golf GTI/VR6 or Corrado VR wishbones, but they have broken the inner CVs in the stresses of competition use due to being too long. Best to fit the corresponding Golf GTI/VR6 or Corrado VR driveshafts (same).
    • Passat B3 VR6, early 5-stud models came with Mk2 or Mk3 Golf/Ibiza Mk2/3, 4-stud hub housings with 5-stud hub flanges. These cars are rare, but can offer a simple way of converting to 5 stud without having to change existing bearing carriers, it can even be done just for narrow track (as well as wide track). Change outer CVs to Mk3 GTI/VR6, Corrado VR or later Passat B3 / B4 5-stud, and that's an instant 5-stud car.
    • A tip is to fit G60 arch liners if trimming the arches to keep road crud out of the inner wings
    • Driveshaft lengths thread here

    Related FAQs:
    • Best front top mounts for a Mk2 FAQ here
    • The list of anti roll bars available, OEM and aftermarket, is here
    • How to change your wishbone bushes here
    • Changing front wheel bearings here
    • Front wheel alignment specifications here
    • Golf & Seat Ibiza front suspension differences here
    • Golf/Passat/Ibiza subframe differences here
    • Camber bolts here

    Thanks to rubjonny for swiftly reviewing this in advance, as well as the various who have posted useful information on existing threads where his has been cribbed from, including knowledgeable contributors rubjonny, lufbramatt, s1m0n and others.

    Rear suspension
    This is far simpler. There are various widths of rear beam in existence which will fit the Mk2 Golf, Mk3 Golf, Corrado, and also Passat. There is a common misconception that the Mk3 is wider, when in fact they're all pretty similar. Relevant information from the Rear axle, back plate to back plate dimensions thread:

    ModelYearWidth
    Mk2 GolfDriver, drum brakes1340m
    Mk2pre-'90-spec1357mm
    Mk2'90-spec1357mm, 1340mm
    Mk3non-GTI, 4-stud1363mm
    Mk3GTI, 5 stud1358mm
    Mk3GTI 8v, R-reg, 5 stud1358mm
    Mk3VR, 5 stud1353mm
    Mk3Golf/Vento 4-stud up to 7.931376mm
    Mk3Golf/Vento 4-stud 8.93 onwards1358mm
    Mk3Golf/Vento 5-stud1358mm
    Mk3Golf CL 4-stud "L"-reg1376mm
    Corrado'89 16V1340mm
    Passat1Z TDI,1995, 4 stud with drums1344mm
    Polo / Seat IbizaMk41325mm
    Seat toledo1996/7, 4 stud with drums1344mm
    Note these measurements come from a variety of origins and a few mm here or there could be identical in reality.

    Beware of wide beams without the integral welded anti roll bar, not only due to the lack of roll bar, but taken from here, courtesy rubjonny:

    Rear Beam thickness
    Type / model Without anti-roll bar 5mm Without anti-roll bar 6mm With anti-roll bar 6mm
    Golf 1.1 l, 1.3 l, 1.6 l manual gearboxx  
    Golf 1.6 l automatic gearbox, 1.8 l/66 kW Golf diesel, GTD and vehicle with M456 (sports running gear) Jetta all except GT x 
    Golf GTI, Golf GTI 16 V, Jetta GT, GT 16 V, GL, Golf GTI G60  x
    Check the width of your existing beam, and then choose whichever alternate beam is preferred (unless you've already got the optimal one).


    Note:
    Passat beams do not fit MK2/3 chassis as the beam mounting points differ as do the pivot bushes.


    Stub axle spacers
    To widen the beam further, then add stub axle spacers to complete the desired rear track width increase. These have no effect on rear geometry (provided they are parallel!)
    Three options:
    1. make your own with OEM stub axles (drum brake stub axles are best*) as shown on the stub axle backplate spacer thread;
    2. use Lupo backplate spacers (p/n 6E0501466A and 6E0501465A), more info here; or
    3. buy them from Tinydubs in the Entrepreneurs section here.
    * drum brake stub axle backplate diameter = 80.5mm, disc brake stub axle backplate diameter = 90mm


    If you are using your own stub axle bolts, you must use 10.9 tensile strength bolts, not 8.8, or you will start losing wheels. Torque them properly.

    Here is a list of OEM stub axle bolts available which may be useful:
    SourceUseDimensionsPart no.Price
    Mk1 Golfstub axleM10x32mm -> 24.5mmN 90758901 -> N 903 698 01 
    Mk2 Golfdrum stub axleM10x24.5mmN 90369801 
    Mk2 Golfdisc stub axleM10x32mmN 90758901 or N 90877301 
    Mk2 Golf Group A Rally Car (with spacers)stub axleM10x30mmN 90068902 (transpires as Mk1 caliper to hub bolts) 
    Mk3 Golfstub axleM10x32mmN 90758901 or N 90877301 
    Lupostub axleM10x32mmN 90758901 
    Audi 80/90Drums modelM10x40mmN 0104403 
    Lupo GTIstub axleM10x40mmN 908863011.25 plus VAT each
    Escort Cosworthrear hub38mmF1640024 N/STK 009267/Bolt (also found a ref 52994 F/E on last packet I bought). Pic here1.08 plus VAT each
    Note:
    Ibiza Mk2 & 3s have a Polo 4 rear beam, so are not interchangeable with Golf/Corrado but the rear stub axles bolt patterns are the same so will take the same spacers.

    Related FAQs:
    • Poly bushing rear beam here
    • Changing rear wheel bearings here
    • Guide to fitting Polo 4 / Seat Ibiza Mk2 & 3 stub axles & brakes here
    • Rear wheel alignment specifications here
    HTH :thumbup:

    Given all the effort that's gone into this:
    (C) Copyright, Club GTI 2010. Not to be reproduced in whole or part without permission.
     
  2. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    just to clarify, you can make your own early B3 Passat VR6 5 stud setup using MK3 5 stud hubs pressed into 4 stud bearing carriers, then its a choice of redrilling 4 stud 256/280mm discs to 5 stud, or buy the early Passat VR6 discs from VW. Then use the right calipers & carriers to match the size of disc.

    Passat disc part number:
    357 615 301 A - 280 brake disc, 5x100 - 38.83+VAT
     
  3. dUff

    dUff Administrator Admin

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    awesome thread , is there some info on the rears that can be added to this as this is just the front of the cars , i do recall seeing some threads on how to do the rears
     
  4. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Good idea. On it now :thumbup:
     
  5. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    I think that's everything in there now Tris? Any more you recall seeing?
     
  6. dUff

    dUff Administrator Admin

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    That's all I reckon , super usefull thread btw
     
  7. strimmer Forum Member

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    Corrado '89 16V rear beam measured 1340mm from back plate to back plate.

    Outstanding content :clap:
     
  8. paultownsend Forum Member

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    thanks fellas. superb resource. widetrack coming to a golf near you soon!
     
  9. DEX

    Dex Paid Member Paid Member

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    IMO Info of this calibre should be in members only
     
  10. altern8 Forum Junkie

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    Awesome work well done all involved
     
  11. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    oops! error in the list. for MK3 Golf 4 stud wishbone section, MK2 golf shafts dont work, neither do seat ones. not long enough!
     
  12. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    When I wide tracked mine, I used Passat B3/B4 items, with an O2J box. I used the Passat drive shafts, and changed the output flanges on the box. There are no standard shafts that will fit.
    HTH.
     
  13. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    I think the 02J box will have had 108mm output flanges?

    Hmm, I am sure the Ibiza wishbones are the same as Mk2 Golf, therefore the shafts are the same length? [:s]

    Where is the width diff on a 4-stud Mk3?
     
  14. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    Yep. Replaced with 02A409355D, 100mm flange which bolt directly on to the Mk2 shafts.
     
  15. m1keh Forum Member

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    In the wishbones, hence these being the part you change to acheive a small amount of widetrack? So you need 4 stud mk3 driveshafts as well as wishbones to make it work.
     
  16. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    Just to be clear, I used the Passat drive shafts, so the question mark can be taken out of that column.
     
  17. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Sparrow - you are using 4-stud Mk2 hubs? So the outer CVs didn't need changing?

    m1keh - can you rephrase? What you've written I don't understand ("In the wishbones")
     
  18. m1keh Forum Member

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    You asked where is the width difference in the 4 stud mk3, it is in the wishbones.

    So with 21mm longer wishbones you need the longer driveshafts from the 4 stud mk3 as well.
     
  19. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Got it now. I've put a line through the error being pointed to. Jonny/Mike, pls confirm ok now.
     
  20. danster Forum Addict

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    I reckon he was referring to the change of output flanges on the 02J from 108 to the 02A 100mm, that then allowed the complete Passat shafts to be used as is. No change of either inner or outer cvs then.
     

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