M3 is 400 something bhp, it would **** off like a scalded cat. focus rs is 350. > but faster then a tuned mk4 1.8t like at north weald last summer?
unlike a dyno, those tests are going to involve driver ability BMW's claimed time for the E46 M3 at the ring is 8:22.00, did the mk1 produce a time short than that?
Right but in Ben S's example each one of those cars did try to compete and lost - the Clio and the Focus especially. The one car that did potentially "back off/bottle it" was the 350z but I don't see how people claim that if one driver "bottles it" and you are prepared to go faster then you haven't beaten it A car is only as fast as its driver - one of the reason's Lewis Hamilton is rated as highly as he is, is because he is willing to do manouevres that little bit faster (and more skillful) then other drivers (DISCLAIMER: Not saying anyone is as good as an F1 driver on here!!) Blimey I hope Ben doesn't start charging me 40 an hour for the work he does on my car How much money/value do you add on then for the simple pride/pleasure in knowing that it is your work & skill that has made the car what it is in terms of driveability & bph? Or that look on the Lamborghini Murcilago (572bhp) driver's face as the Wolf R (315bhp) threatens to push it to one side (sorry Toyotec - had to use it!! )
A) None of the ones I listed were crusing whilst being overtaken, like in a Top Gear feature where a honda jazz doing 85 can overtake a lambo doing 80. They were all simply mk2 heading somewhere e.g. shops / to dinner when "insert vehicle" has decided to try and push hard / tailgate. Attempt to stick with the mk2 resulted in a clear gap B) The time replaced what would be leisure time, so working on the car spared my eyes from the computer or TV etc. It's quite possible to spend 2 hours watching youtube alone, but in the same 2 hours, you can remove an engine from a Mk2 Golf. Taking purely mechanical times rather than time spent making bits look nice, how long do you think it took to convert the KR vehicle in the How To ABF Your Mk2 thread? 1 day ish? Even using the charge yourself 40/hr measure, would bring cost to 300. Engine 350 from Stevens VW, total cost = 1 x early spec 16v + 650.... I don't think you can buy many newer cars with that.
No but then neither did the ABF beat any of those cars last summer either - these were all after North Weald once more work had been done (majority of them being this year). No point looking in the past except for a benchmark for future improvement Focus RS may be 350bhp but did we say Focus RS? - recheck the thread I believe Ben stated a Focus RS would beat the Mk2 but he beat a Focus ST And like I said how can you just choose pure bhp figures without looking at torque or bhp per ton - as per my previous post, on pure bhp the Wolf R is way out gunned by the Lamborghini but that certainly wasn't the case on the road
no, id still put a big wager on a 400bhp M3 leaving a mk2 not know which way it went. ben claims "It requires something as fancy as Focus RS/ BMW M3/ Porsche Cayman to be faster than Mk2 ABF" > these were all after North Weald once more work had been done i recon a trip to the pod would make a good benchmark, i've not been up pod for a long time this thread is as good as the "nothing is faster than a 172 in the twisties" from 10 years ago
this thread is becoming epic! Lambo murkylager, quarter mile under 12 seconds, from memory, its standing mile time was 30 seconds and 170mph bwahahaahahawisdriodgfjigjdfkgnsdfhnsdtioghdsjoooo
Matt you have confused me I would put back you with that wager on the M3 leaving the Mk2 behind - that's what Ben said. A Focus RS/M3/Porsche Cayman are all faster then the MK2 ABF Pod probably would be a good run at some point - but you were quoting North Weald times so surely we should then use that next time? If you want to include non-just straight line speeds then the Mk2 was faster then a Honda S2000 (approx 237bhp) at Bedford two weeks ago. Was that all pure power/torque? Probably not - Ben is bold around a corner - but then like I said, a car is only as fast as its driver
I was really to gauge how slow a Mk2 really is compared to day a diesel mondeo or something, just normal everyday cars. My golf is a standard 8v. Suppose my mates call me the grandad anyway because they think i drive slowly. I say "No, im just preserving my car" hahahaha.
no, ben said it would require XYZ M3 RS Cayman to be faster than a mk2 ABF. they wouldnt just be faster, they would be so much faster the mk2 wouldnt see which way it went, so sort of pointing out the obvious really. the timing at north weald is a joke but not as much of a joke as the surface. the pod is in international benchmark. it would be good to have some times there, then we could see how much awesomer-er megasqurted cars are compared to what GVK et al were achieving back in the day
A lambo would blow away my 315 PS thing on a drag strip or on a long straight once the driver is willing to exceed 165mph rapidly. No contest there. A RS4 V8 and E92 M3 on the other hand.... You have to include power to weight, gearing aero and so on else the whole discussion breaks down.
I think you're reading too much into it. That was a general group of "sports cars" which I would happily state are all much faster The "M3" was all M3s from E36 282 hp convertible upwards... This happens to be the only M3 I even attempted.. and 282bhp / 1560kg = 181bhp per ton, which is as you may have worked out.. is faster. I knew it would be quicker anyway, but it's still fun to try. This however does suggest that if you can get the power up to or the weight down, this lowest form of M3 will be within reach
Never believe I said this took place on a quarter mile run? Nor did I say the Wolf R was in the lead at the end - just gave it a challenge
You do not have to go that far back mate... vw_singh 174PS = 13.7secs@100 mph last year. GVK 205 PS = 14.3secs @98mph same event. Both had very good 60 ft times. And in comparison my car at that same event could only manage 13.7secs@112mph with rubbish 60 foot times. Again it is about power to weight. Put 175PS in a motor bike and same 1/4mile can consumed in 11-10secs@112mph
B) The time replaced what would be leisure time, so working on the car spared my eyes from the computer or TV etc. It's quite possible to spend 2 hours watching youtube alone, but in the same 2 hours, you can remove an engine from a Mk2 Golf. Taking purely mechanical times rather than time spent making bits look nice, how long do you think it took to convert the KR vehicle in the How To ABF Your Mk2 thread? 1 day ish? Even using the charge yourself 40/hr measure, would bring cost to 300. Engine 350 from Stevens VW, total cost = 1 x early spec 16v + 650.... I don't think you can buy many newer cars with that.[/QUOTE] What I mean if I am being miss under stood is if you have the knowledge or money you can sort most old hot hatches to be quicker better handling than modern day equivalents . I used 40 per hour for time as conservative estimate as even though it is leisure time some measure has to be put on it. The other point I have not mentioned is that mk2 seem to be going up in value quite significantly of late so to buy and abf a mk2 you are probably looking at 2200. personally though I would change suspension and Polly bush it then cost rises near to 2800. I have seen early imprezas for that money. I am not sure what would be quiver round the back roads or on track as mk2 should be able to keep up in terms of speed.
The knowlege will enable you to make wise choices regarding where funds or resoruce can be allocated. This is very important. GC8 Sccoby or CD9A/CE9A EVO1-3 for that money would be probably ****ed. Will need work to return to former glory.
yes thats the problemand they are similar age to mk2 all 20 year old cars could do with freshen up especially if they have not been maintained to a high standard. thats why i can understand some people wanting 4k for mint mk2 i am just chosing to do it my self to a one that was owned by a muppet who just slammed it and ****ed its handling
searched some of GVK's old threads, his mk2 ankor apparently did a sub 9 min BTG and his car was stripped etc.
