Hi again all, When I next get to play with the engine at the weekend I shall re-fit my proper oil pressure gauge to ensure I have good oil pressure. When the gauge was last fitted, however, it all seemed healthy enough. The oil pressure would shoot right over when cold. The oil pump was properly primed. It was filled before fitting and I also ensured the oil pressure built up by turning the engine over on the starter prior to attempting to properly start it. Mikehorsb, not sure if you realise but this is a 16V G60, and you can clearly hear the G-lader. Is this the other humming noise that you're referring to? Although this head was rebuit prior to fitting to this 16V G60 project, the head was run on my old 16V for a while and the tappets were new when it went into that. I can't remember if I soaked them prior, but when the head was on that car with these tappets, it ran nicely. Horizontal Dave: The belt does get noticably tighter when the engine is hot. But I would say that I have slackened the belt off quite a bit - as much as I dare to do so (it's still pretty much a 90 degree twist, and certainly no more) and this has made no difference to the noise. At the weekend I will check again and again that nothing is expanding and starting to rub. In addition I'll try and remove the poly-belt for the charger, water pump and alternator, but I need to ensure I can whip this belt off quickly enough and re-start the engine while it's still sufficiently hot for the noise to still be there (or not, if this being the case!), as without this belt I'll have no water pump. Gents, I think I have another big issue with this engine too. Every time I've run it, I've had a lot of water and white smoke from the exhaust. I've largely ignored it so far because I thought it was a massive amount of condensation due to me idling the engine many times for only short periods while trying to get MegaSquirt set up. But over the last weekend at one point I actually had water almost starting to run down the drive. And a while back I posted a thread about finding almost a pint of water in the exhaust system when I removed it last. Yesterday I put a marker on the expansion tank when cold before running it and fully warming the engine. This morning I checked the level when cold again and the coolant level has already fallen 5mm in the expansion tank. There is a lot of white smoke from the engine at all temperatures, especially when revved. In my inexperience I've put this down to either condensation or just running very rich, but I'm starting to believe I have coolant getting into the chambers now. I'm just about to order one of those 'block tester' kits off eBay to test the coolant for gas. Those of you who have seen my "beginning of a 16V G60 thread" will know that this is a freshly rebuilt head, resurfaced block, etc. with an ABF head gasket and so surely I shoudn't have this kind of problem. Unless I had a cracked block / head. Gents, thanks for all of your suggestions so far - it's very encouraging.
I suspect that some thing on the belt, possibly the tensioner, is not running true causing the belt tension to alter (get tighter then looser) as the engine turns over through its cycle. You may be able to see this by eye if you watch very carefully. Tis a pita about your other problem too.
That's an interesting idea, Dave. Well that reminds me of something a mate suggested to me, which is to use some chalk on a belt to diagnose whether that belt is making a noise. Just did a search on Google and someone suggests using a bit of talcum powder for this too. So I'll check everything is running true as you say, maybe also try the talcum thing, and I guess it might be an idea to order another tensioner right now. Trev
Trev, I did realise it was a G60, but I haven't heard one close up before... just passing at high speed I wasn't sure which noise you were worried about, so I tried to cover both. On a freshly built engine, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of crap in the exhaust, especially if it was attached to the car when the old engine was pulled apart. I also wouldn't be overly worried about a bit of water loss, unless the car's parked on flat ground, and you've consciously worked to remove any air locks, it may be just that. I rebuilt the top end of my 2.0 16v, from standard to a spec with a head which visited the fabled shed, and a 4-1 manifold. In the course of the rebuild, the tappets went from the old head to the new one, in the same numbered bore, with the same KR cams. They went from being very quiet and smooth, to being noisy little sods. They got quieter after about 20 minutes of fast idle, during which time the engine was belching smoke as *some idiot* had managed to get some oil down the bores, while pre-lubricating the cams with the spark plugs out - D'oh!! They're still not as quiet now as in the old engine (after 500 miles). At first I thought this was low oil pressure, but now I think I might have too much. I've got 6 or 7 bar at tickover on 10w40 oil... same oil pump, same bottom end... So... the point of all that waffle... noisy tappets might just need run a bit more to properly pump up... If you're still worried, take the cam cover off and see if some of them still compress by hand. BTW... The Man In The Shed says that VW heads *never* crack internally, without looking knackered from the outside. But then he's only got 28 years experience - what does he know?!
Noise seems to be tensioner or cam belt lower cover rubbing i.e the metal one behind the intermediate gear. If you are getting water into the combustion chamber the engine may become very tight from first start. So the white smoke may just be simply dew from combustion
Heheh... you could say it has a unique self-destruct feature, in the form of an expensive grenade bolted to the front At the weekend I shall take some pictures of the water loss because, as you say, it's normal for some water in the exhaust, and it's difficult to really judge what is acceptable and what isn't. So I'll get some pictures taken for definite. I've also just bought a 'block tester' off eBay, which costs 30ish including postage. The type with the blue fluid that you hold in a bulb above the expansion tank, which turns yellow if gas is present. I thought it was worth a shot. I'll get my proper engine stethoscope back from my mate; with this hopefully I can pinpoint if it's tappet related.
i reakon your doin the right thing replacing the tensioner if your sure the belts not catchin the lower cover as i said earlier try squirtin some wd40 into the gap on the tensioner pully it might just cure the niose momenterily
I've not ordered a new tensioner yet because I think it's easier to just follow the suggestion you've just made Neil, i.e. shove some WD40 into it (or soak it with oil). A 16V tensioner plus the postage etc. will come to about 30 quid from GSF I think so I'd rather try the WD40 first! Can't bloody wait to get back home and hopefully nail this one. Hopefully it's not pistons or something...
If you take the belt off you should be able to tell if the tensioner is iffy... any major play or rumbling and I'd replace it - especially on a 16v! http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=566 Maybe a bit cheaper...
Can't see it beng pistons. They usually go quiet when warm as they've expanded to take up any clearence. Forged pistons usually make a fine rattle when cold, but I still didn't notice that much on my own engine.
Gents, Looks like I had a positive outcome today. The new idler from VWSpares turned up and so I fitted that. Now after I fitted it, I checked the cambelt timing again just to be sure. And to my amazement I found that the head sprocket was a tooth out from TDC. And I am very sure that the belt didn't slip when I swapped the idler. So, it appears I may have had it a tooth out all this time, even though I certainly would have checked it very carefully when I first did it. I ran the engine for more than long enough to fully warm it, and the noise didn't come back at all. I also used the Block Tester to test for gas in the coolant, and the fluid didn't change colour whatsoever. But I'm not getting any fluid out of the exhaust now, either! When I ran this engine last week, I had so much water coming out that it started pooling and running down the drive. But this time, nothing at all. A bit of white smoke that I could see and that was it. What do you reckon guys - could being one tooth out on the timing cause all this kind of thing? Either way, I'm grateful for the kick to order a new idler! Trev
Aye, it's a bit of a mystery. I suppose all the fluid coming out of the exhaust must have been neat fuel, because I warmed it up again this weekend and the exhaust was still totally dry! I'd have thought that I'd have smelled it if it was fuel, but I suppose that you become numb to the smell of it after a while... Again thanks for the good advice gents. Now I suppose that if I do another compression check, I should get better compression shouldn't I? When I last tested it before fixing the timing I had values ranging from about 124 to 131psi, if I remember right.
Aye but it is a lowered compression engine and has not really been run in yet, if that makes a difference. Um, I warmed the engine up tonight and that noise came back. Chucked talc over it and it went away for a short time. Ah, well - so it really is belts.
You can't just calculate it like that, Neil - the heat from compression ups the reading as well. The old rule used to be 16-18 times the compression ratio, in Psi - but a healthy standard valver will often be up towards the 200psi mark.
gutted for you if the noise came back im out of ideas,never heared of the talc method learn somet new every day just to clarify about the comp ratio i was going by what the link i provided says im checking mine again at the weekend again but last time i did them i did from flat cold and got 150 from all cylinders i will do it cold then hot and compare the difference and will post results on here
