With regard to MS, there are some cars on here that work well. But there are also ones that lie unfinished and not running due to the complexity of the install that the owners probably never expected to be so drawn out and involved. Not everyone has the time or knowledge to complete the hardware setup. Never mind the time and skill to correctly map them. Leaving the car on K jet and getting it set up will be far cheaper and less work than a complete EFI conversion. The rolling road day showed that even EFI cars suffered in a similar way to old skool carb and injection cars due to climatic conditions and not being fully mapped for the conditions. This striving for optimisation is an interesting subject in itself. But on the track there is no need to be able to go WOT in 4th gear from 1200rpm and have the perfectly optimised setup throughout the range. Yes it may help, but so will other factors if lap time is all that matters. Suspension and gearbox will have more of an effect than the last 10 percent of mapping IMO. Adjusting fuelling is one thing with a lot of variables which can be dealt with to reach optimum AFRs. Throw in an alternative dizzy or mappable ignition and suddenly you have control over a lot more. I am just putting the flack jacket on for the inevitable sheit storm.
So which would you choose first on a 16v, Danny? Two lovely lumpy cams, or a home-brew ECU? NB, do you not have a Megajolt in your possession?
Here is my progression (1/4mile at Santa Pod): 1.8 KR, Standard Gearbox (2Y): 14.7 best & 14.9 average 1.8 KR, Flowed head, Standard Gearbox (2Y): 14.5 best & 14.7 average 1.8 KR, Flowed Head, 3.9FD (2Y): 14.3 best & 14.5 average (Golf+ 16v Shootout spec) 2.0 ABF, K-jet, 4.25FD (2Y): 14.3 best & 14.5 average (Suspect less top end than KR but more midrange, 150BHP @ Streamline) 2.0 ABF, Management, 4.25FD (2Y): 13.7 best and 13.8 average. The flowed head deffo improved performance (Damaged it so never made it to the ABF) The Final drive deffo improved performance The Management deffo improved performance Regards, Gurds
Progressed from about 90/91MPH up to 100/101mph where it stands now. Although I have used various tyres throughout, my 0-60ft has remained at about 2.1-2.3sec consistantly. Gurds
Lots of questions here I wonder what the best cost/bhp/drivability compromise is? Mate's selling a complete megasquirt setup for 350, but then you'd need a knowledgeable person to map it for you, can't imagine Toyotec works for free. does anyone have a realistic, all sorted megasquirt install cost? 600, 1000? any real figures out there? could an ABF ecu offer improvements over k-jet for very little cost? Hardware wise, is there a cheap way of increasing the compression? I'd be great to see some prices next to the potential gain in performance.
And where might these "optimum" AFRs occur over a speed/load range with a mechnical metering device?. Why run a run a programmable ignition module when you can always stick a simple advance weight dizzy instead with points and condenser. . You just said not everybody has the skill to fit/tweak a SEM system so why not keep it simple like it used to be in the 70s and 80s with performance to match.
examples like Ian B's car are a little unclear as many tried to copy his setup and got nowhere near the power output. Remeber GVK's battle which ended up in fitting a vr6
First point, eh? Adjust the kjet system to provide a more optimum AFR depending on requirements. It is possible in the similar way it is with a carb. Where did I say points and condenser? Chuck in a PUG 205 dizzy and have the benefit of different advances curves depending on 1.6 or 1.9 variations. But then again, why bother doing anything. It seems that MS has gone all ED38 and scene sheep style. And what are your thoughts on the various unfinished MS conversions that have been going on for so long? It cost some serious dosh and time to fit. That is an absolute fact. Whoops, make sure you have a camshaft in your engine to get this back on topic.
To be honest, doing a Management system conversion is no more expensive than anything else? It's only cheap as the components you source i.e; manifold, injectors, sensors etc. Depends on what you already may have or can get from the scrappers. And doing a final drive change is not cheap along with cams, verniers, flowed heads etc etc. They all cost a fair chunk of dosh especially if you don't have skills to do it yourself. Final Drive change : 800+ including bearings & seals replacement? Not including buying a box or removal/refit of your own. Cams: 400 onwards plus fitting & setting up. Budget cost of fuel/spark tweek (what ever the system is). Add 100+ extra if fitting a vernier. So easy 600+? Flowed head: 650 inlcuding gaskets/bolts/belts plus possible labour? so 800? (Going by shed prices). Management change: 600-700+ inc a possible mapping session at a MINIMUM. Can be a lot more if you don't understand it or buy everything possible new. So to be honest, none of the modifications come cheap. Gurds
I cant see where the MS expense comes into it? The ABF has all sensors you need for MS to run it. For me all it cost me was the kit and a loom. under 250. Obviously mapping time is extra but the man gets it in the ballpark very quickly. Then i could adjust areas i felt needed it. The rest of my costs were soaked up doing the turbo conversion. The point about MS is it's not for everyone. You do need to have the skill to build, install and adjust various parameters to have your engine how you want it. It's not plug and play, Ther are other more expensive standalone solutions that would give you this if its "over your head".
I say again, the last DTA EXP48 ECU I bought was 150. Bought it, having placed a wanted ad - no eBay pillaging involved! I knew absolutely feck all about these things, got the basic DTA wiring diag (I can't read Haynes-style wiring diags), even wired up the fuel pump relay backwards first off. If I can wire an ECU up, an amoeba can wire an ECU up Start up map, away you go. Anyone that wants 16v ones, I have various.
Coming at it with the view the the k-jet car has not got any of the sensors inc crank, dizzy, inlet temp, injectors, tps, inlet manifold etc. Of course it can cost much less if your handy or have lots of the sensors/actuator already as you say. I had to spend Approx 130 on top of the original MS as I wanted to go wasted spark and bought a 4-pole coil along with a new inlet temp sensor and replacing the duff crank position sensor I had. Regards, Gurds
Megasquirt vs K-jet - It depends on your ultimate goal, if you want an original period car, then K-jet has to stay, and be tweaked as best as it can be to suit the other modifications. This setup will end up a compromise, but will work. If you want to get the best possible performance out of the hardware EFI offers the adjustability to get the best from the engine at more than one or two engine speeds. My Corrado is currently running KE-Motronic (K-jet with additional function), which runs lean, then rich, then lean again when looking at the plot from the 16v rolling road day. From the research I have done, the only way to emulate the adjustability of the EFI system is to alter the profile of the cone in the air flow meter, and then have the ignition mapped by someone with the knowledge and equpment. I want to keep the car visualy as close to original as possible, but want better performance, so I will be converting to Megasquirt using a Corrado VR6 airbox and ABF inlet, TB, injector rail etc. As for cams, mine started as a std 9a, then I fitted a kr inlet cam (exhaust is the same on 9a or kr), after that I tried Schrick 267/276 cams, but could not get them to work on the KE-Motronic and ended up back on KR spec cams. After Megasquirt, I will probably look into some fairly mild fast road cams to complement my shed head, rebuilt bottom end with 2008c and 11:1 compression. I don't want a peaky race car style engine, more a sturdy quick engine for road use, with good mid range torque.
9:1 Compression? Are you going to turbo it? You want 11:1 for NA, or a bit more. I thought this was an interesting point ...and then when you change your cams, you need to do it again. With a standalone self-mapped solution, you can redo your own map to suit other changes. Whether or not you then validate it on a rolling road, is down to your confidence level in your mapping skills, and the equipment you used to do it.
I reckon I spent 750 all in, buying a pre-built ECU and loom, and doing the install myself. I paid for mapping help, as it was the first one. The car has done 5000 reliable miles since, including a drive to the 'Ring, and about 15 laps. I'm currently using it as the daily. The car is about 10 mph quicker up the big hill on the 'Ring, after the conversion, with no other changes in the engine hardware, and is indicating 130 instead of 120-125mph on the fastest parts of the circuit. If your mate is selling an ECU, make sure it's been built for a similar setup to the one you want to run - e.g. are you using a dizzy or coil packs? There are probably other relevant differences that are set up in the hardware rather than config, but I'm not 100% on the right questions to ask. If you've got a portable wideband sniffer or AFR gauge in the car, then you can do a lot of the mapping yourself. I've fiddled with the map on mine (for MOTs and the like) an would only want a 'fine tune' on future maps. It's good to have help on the first one though.
