88 GTI 8v first start after 10 years any advice welcome

Discussion in '8-valve' started by GTIBOB, Jul 14, 2020.

  1. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    just swap the 17 or 18 relay into slot 2, the pump will run with ignition on then.

    the ecu only triggers pump to prime for a few seconds ignition on, then run constantly when it sees a hall signal from the distributor. fuel level wouldn't affect fuel pumps running
     
  2. Richard Gilberd Forum Member

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    o.k then sounds like a fuel issue, i would pull off the pipe at the fuel rail, put a catch container under it and turn on the ignition and see if you get anything, if not i'm afraid it may well be a pump gone,, if the lifter pump goes the car won't prime as no fuel gets to the main pump, fingers crossed it's that one as it's a cheap fix, i imagine the reserve on these are around 5-8 litres.
     
  3. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Cheers Richard
    It’s all very strange. I have changed both pumps and fuel filter. Fixed the fuel gauge float sender and gauge registered about 1/4 after 20l Jerry can. Car started and ran well. Left things for couple of months over Christmas then tackled a leaking coolant flange. On refitting the coolant system went for a start to test system and fan etc.
    No joy ....strong new battery, have a spark on all 4 plugs, fuel pump fuse ok, I hear the lifter pump priming on ignition but no start, not even a cough.
    Strangely the fuel gauge needle does not move from empty.
    Put the 20l of fuel in back last June but car has only sat idling in garage for about an hour in total.
    Could the fuel have evaporated to the extent that it’s too low for the lifter pump. Haven’t looked in the tank as it’s a pain getting the cap off.
    Bet that’s what it is.....I’ll add another 20 l and see what happens
    Cheers
    R
     
  4. costel1969

    costel1969 Paid Member Paid Member

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    20 liters is not a lot of fuel and depending on the condition of the tank/old remaining fuel some gunk may have been dislodged. I would be inclined to agree with Richard and say that this looks like a fuel issue rather than a new main or lifter pump giving up the ghost. (fingers crossed) and would also recommend (if the extra 20 litres doesn't sort it), pulling off the fuel hose at the rail and see if anything is getting that far - if not then it's either pump/relay/wiring
     
  5. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Hi
    Can I loosen this nut on end of rail to check for fuel to injectors
     

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  6. H8V

    h8v Forum Member

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    Yep, that's an outlet to check the fuel pressure, I believe.
     
  7. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Would save a lot of dismantling . Would I upset any setting by loosening this and tightening back up
     
  8. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    It seems very delicate on the end of the rail I’m reluctant to touch it in case it breaks and I’m into a new fuel rail or worse. Just had a very slight cough but still no start.
    If I attach battery directly to the two connector pins of the accumulator pump should I hear it run or buzz? I tried this few days ago and just hear a click when I connect power . This pump was replaced last July and has only run for an hour tops . The lift pump is priming and I have a spark. May have to call in the experts.
    Frustrating as I had car running nicely until I worked at the coolant system which should have nothing to do with starting. Granted car was not started since October
    At end of tether
     
  9. GVK

    GVK Paid Member Paid Member

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    Should buzz with it connected straight to battery
     
  10. costel1969

    costel1969 Paid Member Paid Member

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    I found this on the web which may be of some use for your tests on the pumps/fuel delivery - they've gone into significant detail with all the gear but you don't have to bother with all that.
    Volkswagen - DIGIFANT - Fuel and Ignition System (1987) - YouTube
    Whatever has happened is not that serious and you will sort it yourself I'm sure, the Mk2 is by no means complicated and they're pretty straightforward.
    You need to get to the main line to the rail and confirm whether or not you're getting fuel - if you are then that eliminates the pumps and their associated wiring /relays and then it's ignition/injector but you say you have spark so I suspect that element is probably OK.
    My money is on you're not getting fuel and it's a fuel pump relay/fuel pump/wiring - I presume you've changed the fuel filter but it might be worth having a look or replacing it just in case crud has got in there and fouled things up - obviously if you are getting fuel no need.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
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  11. GVK

    GVK Paid Member Paid Member

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    He has put power straight to the pump and it's not working.
     
  12. costel1969

    costel1969 Paid Member Paid Member

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    I would still remove the line and confirm that he has no fuel to the fuel manifold - new pumps don't generally bomb out so quickly and if so I would query why - is there rust/crud in the system that the pumps are now struggling with?
     
  13. GVK

    GVK Paid Member Paid Member

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    Could well be muck in there yeah, shame the new pump isn't working.
     
  14. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Thanks for the advice guys. Was looking at what’s involved in taking the feed hose off the fuel rail. It’s well buried under pipe work which would mean a fair bit of dismantling so was hoping I could undo the fitting at the end of the fuel rail to see if fuel inside. I’ve always thought it best not to disturb old fittings and connections but I do need to get to the bottom of this.
    I took advice and swapped relay 17 into socket 2 and the lift pump ran continuously. I felt some vibration in the accumulator box but felt no vibes from the accumulator pump. Might be less hassle to remove accumulator pump and test rather than pulling fuel line at rail. I have already connected battery directly to pins of accumulator pump socket and there’s just a click just like there was when I changed the original failed one back in June.
    Should the pump run continuously if I supply power now while it’s in accumulator perhaps it doesn’t need to be removed to test it.
    All your comments and advice greatly appreciated
     
  15. costel1969

    costel1969 Paid Member Paid Member

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    Fair enough Robert might be worth a shot pulling the bast@@d out and checking it to see if it runs - I'm hoping that it's crud on the mesh filter that got pulled up from the tank

    I could be wrong but I thought if you pulled off that plastic elbow linking the AFM to the throttle body you could get at that main fuel line but it was a long time ago and I might be off the mark on that.
     
  16. Richard Gilberd Forum Member

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    yes that's what i thought you could check it from that side, i'm thinking more likely to be a blockage somewhere, look where he fuel lines come up to the throttle body if i remember right the green one is return, pull the other one put a catch container under it and turn on the ignition and see if anything comes out and if not it has to lie in those fuel lines/pumps somewhere
     
  17. GVK

    GVK Paid Member Paid Member

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    Yes should run with power applied.
     
  18. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Thanks everyone I think I’ll remove accumulator pump and look for gunk on the mesh filter and I’ll test it when it’s out. I have to admit I didn’t thoroughly clean out all of the old fuel which had been in the tank since 2001 there was about an inch in bottom of tank which I couldn’t siphon out. There was some brown sticky stuff on bottom of tank and managed to scrape 80% of it out. All now had 40l of clean fuel in on top.
    I’ll have a look at the pump and fuel line at weekend
    Thanks for all suggestions received
     
  19. H8V

    h8v Forum Member

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    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
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  20. Giraffe

    Giraffe New Member

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    This is spooky! I’ve just had exactly the same issue with mine, I could have written most of these posts word for word!

    I also have a PB that’s been off the road for about 10 years. I changed both fuel pumps last year/18 months ago. Car has started about once a month since but not driven at all.

    started before Christmas but two weeks ago nothing. Changed relays like you did and also checked for spark. All good. Repacked new plugs because I had a spare set but not needed.

    I could hear the lift pump priming but could not hear the main body pump. I removed the plug from the top of the lift pump. Tried ignition. Heard nothing. I should have heard the bottom pump but nothing. Removed the plug from the bottom pump and reconnected the tank pump. Could hear the tank pump but not the body pump again.

    so that led me to the bottom pump, even though it was new 18 months ago. Ordered the replacement pump from eBay (£30 ish delivered) fitted last night (lost about 1l of fuel in the pump body) and after a couple or extra primes... car fired into life!

    I think it failed from lack of use. Sitting there not being used but swimming in fuel probably saw it off early.

    so disconnect each pump and test. Both should prime and both should prime without the other connected.

    will follow this post with interest as many of your jobs are the same jobs I need to do (or have done)

    all the best
     
    GTIBOB and costel1969 like this.

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