88 GTI 8v first start after 10 years any advice welcome

Discussion in '8-valve' started by GTIBOB, Jul 14, 2020.

  1. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Thanks RJ
    since replacing the cam belt a week or so ago the car has started first kick and idled nicely at about 1k.
    This morning it was really difficult to start. Ran fine last night but this morning it took about 2 mins of cranking and stamping on throttle then eventually it slowly began to run very roughly. After a minute or so of rough running it settled down to a steady idle.
    Any ideas what might cause this. Once warmed up no problem starting. This hasn’t happened before. Haven’t replaced plugs
    Any thoughts appreciated
     
  2. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    have you actually driven it yet? if not, this is what you need to start doing ;)
     
  3. costel1969

    costel1969 Paid Member Paid Member

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    How much fuel is in the tank now? Is it still just that bit that you’ve added - if so you need to add more fuel - preferably fill it and then as RJ says - drive the damn thing.

    You mentioned the brakes need doing - what specifically are you referring to - you can easily replace fluid, discs, pads, flexible lines and calipers by yourself - have you concerns regarding the metal lines ?

    I'm definitely going to open a bottle of champagne when that car get's driven - if I live that long.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
  4. davkav

    davkav Paid Member Paid Member

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    Sounds like an Italian tune-up is required!
     
  5. Simon Peter Dodgson Forum Member

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    Think mine gets one every time I drive it.....
     
  6. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    First drive in 21 years today. MOT next week. Mechanic who checked brakes over for me let me have a drive on trade plates.
    Like meeting an old friend. Engine pulls well and have been trying to bed in brakes with a few hard stops. Brakes spongy by today’s standards but stops well. New rear callipers and cables so also great handbrake.
    Touch wood it will get through MOT , only thing haven’t been able to check is the emissions.
    Mechanic recommended car be a daily driver which inspires confidence.
    So to all you guys here cheers for the tips and encouragement to get the old girl back on the road again after a 21 year lay up.
    Now I can focus on the small cosmetic details. Once on road properly I’ll upload couple of pics.
     
  7. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    What could be causing a very lumpy start when cold?
    Recently began to be really rough initial start as though running on two cylinders. After a minute or two and bit of reving everything settles down to a clean idle at about 800rpm. Starts fine when warm. Just fitted 4 new plugs .
    Could this be something not set properly?
    Any ideas as mot soon and I’m concerned may fail on emissions
     
  8. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    take a printout of my digifant guide with you, chances are it needs the base idle and co set. make sure the ignition timing is correct before you go, then all they'll have to do is tweak idle and co
     
  9. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Note of thanks to all for advice during the restoration project.
    Passed MOT the other day so delighted to have the car back on the road after 21 years garaged. It was a lot of hours and skinned knuckles but worth it.
    Forgot how firm the ride was. But car feels solid and recent gear linkage bush kit has the shift very precise. Plenty of pull in all gears and surprised at the torque in 5th.
    Looking forward to few outings in summer.
    Hope this forum keeps going
    Let’s keep as many Mk2 GTI‘s as possible on the road
     
    davkav and Simon Peter Dodgson like this.
  10. costel1969

    costel1969 Paid Member Paid Member

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  11. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Next item to sort is the central locking. Used to work 21 years ago when car was stored. Now no sound from pump in boot and fuse is fine. Going to try direct 12v to pump terminals and hope for signs of life.
    After that it’s on to the heating. Not a job I’m looking forward to. I’m hoping a blow through with a hose may free up any possible blockage
     
  12. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Actually the CL can wait the heater isn’t working.
    Seen lots of videos on replacing the matrix and really not keen on a strip down now that I’ve just got the car back on the road a few days.
    Haven’t noticed any wet carpets so don’t think matrix has burst just blocked. Initial flush of engine after 21 year layup saw a lot of rusty sludge in hoses. I knew at the time I should flush the matrix but wasn’t aware it was blocked at that stage so plumbed everything up and car has been running well since with gauge sitting mid point as usual.
    Are the inlet outlet pipes of the original matrix metal or plastic? Wouldn’t want to snap one if brittle.
    Going to try a hose back flush at the weekend and perhaps give a poke with thin bike cable with frayed end like small wire brush to dislodge whatever’s maybe there.
    Can the matrix still be blocked if water is flowing freely through inlet outlet pipes.
    Hopefully this works as really rather not tackle a dash strip down
     
  13. H8V

    h8v Forum Member

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    It's pretty awkward to get to the hose clips at the matrix, and the matrix pipes are more than likely not just plastic, but old (more brittle) plastic.

    Much easier to disconnect the hoses at the engine ends and flush from there. Try gently flushing each way to be sure the flow seems OK. If there's a reasonable flow it's probably best to leave things alone for the time being.

    Poking things into the matrix will either achieve nothing positive, or cause a lot of trouble. Bad idea.
     
  14. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    dont bother trying to poke anything in it, you'll get nowhere. by all means try a flush but bank on having to put another heater in for sure. take the coil off before you try to disconnect the matrix hoses, it makes getting the clips off around 600% easier

    dont have to strip the dash out, and once you know the tips a matrix job is actually pretty easy in a mk2. just be glad its not a corrado or mk3 golf, or worse mk4 :lol:

    https://www.clubgti.com/forums/inde...-is-there-an-easy-er-way.284498/#post-2444175
     
    GTIBOB likes this.
  15. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Many thanks for the advice h8v and RJ especially for the link. I need to just double check that there is no leaking from the matrix and try a flush. Hopefully that may dislodge any blockage or at least partially. If I need to tackle the matrix replacement I’ll leave it until I’ve had a while longer driving the car. I presume no harm is caused by a blocked matrix as long as it’s not leaking.
    Have done about 200mls since passing mot in last two weeks . Delighted with how well the 8v pulls in each gear especially 5th. Still reluctant to go anywhere near red line or over 80 . Need to build confidence that car is reliable and that it won’t fall apart if I hit a pot hole.
    I can live without a heater for the summer.
     
  16. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Decided to do a complete coolant flush and at same time try to flush heater matrix. Main flush went to plan with a surprising amount of gunk given it was flushed about a month ago.
    So on to matrix hoses.
    Took advice and disconnected hoses at engine and tried a gentle back flush. With garden hose I wasn’t getting any through flow. Moved to in pipe and no flow. Back to other hose and through flow started. So now have clear water flowing in both directions it seems through the matrix. BUT when connected back up with new coolant still no heat???
    Both hoses to / from matrix are hot.
    Strangely the left hose is cold where I have circled towards bulkhead but hot below where I’m pointing.
    Don’t really understand how there is no heat when there is flow through matrix.
    I’m resigned to replacing the matrix down the line and disappointed the flush didn’t work
     

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  17. H8V

    h8v Forum Member

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    If matrix flow and return pipes are hot, then matrix must have flow, as you have already shown with the cold water flushing in both directions.

    Therefore it seems that there is an issue with the heater flaps rather than the matrix....perhaps the temp control flaps.

    You could get a better look at the operating cables if you take out the driver side under dashboard shelf and the centre console around the gear lever.

    That would give you better access to the heater box and you could feel for heat in there and figure out what is happening.
     
  18. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Cheers h8v
    Hadn’t thought of that possibility. I definitely have flow in both directions through the matrix. But the top of the return hose close to where it comes through the bulkhead stays cold when engine gets up to temperature. There’s a hard black plastic fitting on return hose circled in photo below it is hot but above it is cold. Strange
    So if I remove centre console I can see if the flaps are opening or closing? Is it possible that flaps could be stuck in a position preventing heat getting out?
    Would I be looking for anything in particular
    I think the cables are fine but need to investigate. Fortunately don’t seem to have any wet carpets so matrix not burst??
     
  19. H8V

    h8v Forum Member

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    VW did a recall to add a mod to the hoses about 20 years ago. That aluminium gubbins you have in the right hand heater pipe is part of it. There should also be a small rubber hose going from it to a similar similar part in the left hand hose, but yours seems to have had that replaced with a piece of straight pipe. One of the effects of the mod was to reduce the flow through the matrix.

    I would first remove whats left of the mod by taking out the aluminium bit and replacing it with a straight pipe, like your left hand hose. You could alternatively just replace the two hoses with a pair like either of these to get the flow back to normal.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-GOLF-MK2-1-6-1-8-GTI-HEATER-MATRIX-COOLANT-WATER-HOSES-191819371E-A115/200877122076?fits=Model:Golf|Plat_Gen:MK+II&epid=15005907037&hash=item2ec535a21c:g:JwwAAOxyyghQ7peI

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Mk2-G...472701?hash=item5d4714527d:g:FJIAAOSwbYZXYU89

    As for the heater flaps, this is an exploded view of the heater assembly. Unfortunately it's for a LHD car, so needs a bit of reversing here and there, but it should give you an idea of how it is arranged. Part 3 is the angled flap that determines the hot/cold by regulating the air that goes through the matrix and the air that avoids the matrix....

    https://7zap.com/en/catalog/cars/Volkswagen/brand/20/0/Golf/Golf (1990 - 1992)/Volkswagen/VnFMWFlNMFZPYUg3L3RjMVl5aGVZdz09--/6bbffde8b5b8077d2d0a5796da6eea3c:d3a9525c5cd45f433eb055a48544d501/universal/10341->10447/014148000::148000::155148

    This might be a bit of a cleaner diagram...https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/golf/go/1990-110/8/819-148000/
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  20. GTIBOB

    GTIBOB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Cheers for reply and links h8v.
    Checked and I do have the little link rubber hose from the aluminium mod as you describe it over to the return hose. It gets hot also. Just wondering if should clamp this and see if that will force flow through matrix.
    Could there still be a flow through a blocked matrix ie. perhaps the water can pass through and out of the top of the matrix without flowing through the core ?.
    Water pump is definitely working as return flow into reservoir tank is steady on idle and increases with revs
    Will have to investigate further
     

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