ABF tuning...then, to now...

Discussion in '16-valve' started by Ess Three, Mar 5, 2009.

  1. Ess Three Forum Member

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    Hmm...it's never easy, is it?


    I had considered something similar...but want to keep ABS.
    I'll plod on with a tapped No1 runner on an ITB.


    Ahh..I didn't know K1200 stuff was close.
    I also have a set of Kawasaki ZX12R ITBs, 50mm down to 46mm, and damn close head spacing (fuel rail only 1-2mm out) that I was going to use before I turned the Jenveys up.
    I may still play with them at some point.
    The injectors will be good for just over 200 BHP too.


    Got ya.
    Sounds interesting!
     
  2. RobT

    RobT Forum Junkie

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    great thread :thumbup:

    Moving the injector away from the valve will give you a bit more power at the expense of throttle response - 'in theory' 8 injectors will give you the best of both worlds

    I was going to try it on my ibiza but bonnet clearance is a real issue

    There was a race scirocco I saw, Allards had something to do with it, that had a valver with 8 injectors and bill has them also on his turbo ibiza

    Very interested to hear how you get on

    I have a dog box fitted to my ibiza now so at some point that will be getting 48's as the dyno says theres another 15hp to be had over 45's (and a shift in powerband to higher revs which the synchro box couldn't handle) - this will be done along side an injector change to allow running on E85 - maybe there's 280hp to be had.......
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2009
  3. Ess Three Forum Member

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    I'm hoping so, Rob.
    I plan to phase the outer injectors in when it really comes on cam - 4500+, so I'm hoping throttle response will be fine.


    It's tight...
    I run modified 1.8T fuel rails and FPRs...and am just waiting for a few final bits from Jenvey to be delivered, but mock-ups suggest the fuel rail will fit (it's already welded/modified) tightly inside a jenvey GRP backplate and domed filter - with the FPR making a very slight hump in the foam filter - it's that tight!.

    Even on a Mk3, bonnet clearance is tight due to the angle of the bonnet...which meant i've had to drop the injectors well into the bellmouths to gain clearance.


    Rest assured, I'll let you know!
    I'm chuffed with the fabrication aspect thus far...so it had better work!
    It's taken me long enough to get the bits physically mounted.



    What are you looking at when all done then?
    270 ish on E85?
     
  4. RobT

    RobT Forum Junkie

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    interesting - I thought it would be a tight fit and if its that bad on a mk3 golf, it wont fit on an ibiza without some serious fabbing (cerr-ching)

    Last time on the dyno I think I saw 240 something, so probably 255 with 48's and maybe another 10% for E85 = 280.....maybe.....

    problem with E85 is that you need a much bigger fuel flow, bigger injectors and low speed running them suffers - but some more modern multi-pintel injectors will likely be better than my old cossie injectors so it will likely be fine.

    Had an interesting conversatuion with a chap on cupranet who works for prodrive about high pressure fuel systems (10bar, F1-type) - you can get more of the fuel into the cylinder as it can be delivered in a shorter duration packet - know anything about these systems?
     
  5. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    Interesting. I've still got the original BMW bike fuel rail, harness, and injectors injectors in the TB's (although I don't know anything about the spec of them) and had planned to use a manifold based on a standard inlet, using the standard injector hole, so potentially there are 8 injectors there.

    Assume you have something similar on the Kwak bodies too, Glen.

    Do either of you know what sort of fuel pressure the bike injectors normally run? If it's similar to the car, it could be a fairly easy solution. Having said that, the BMW FPR is still on the rail as well.
     
  6. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    Std bore on a 1Y is 79.5mm, so it definitely needs bored out. I'm heading for 83.5mm - bought the pistons now, so no going back!

    Stroke on a diesel (1Y type anyway) is 95.5mm
     
  7. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    Thanks for the correction - even better!

    It would be great to hear more news of the next Hotgolf monster, especially when it's been on a rolling road.
     
  8. Ess Three Forum Member

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    Bingo!


    I have the lot too, TPS sensor, AIT tensor, rail, FPR, injectors and bodies - which are nice and easy, single throttle plate versions, nice and big!


    I'm pretty sure the ZX12R runs at 3 bar. I bought a PDF Workshop Manual for the ZX12R off eBay so could check (a copy!)...certainly the ZX12R set up uses an integral FPR so it has to be compatible as it's not a commonly changable one.

    Originally I was going to use the bike bodies as they are...then I looked at manifolds (halfway through making one) and wondered if the injectors were up to it - but since modified ZX12Rs seem to make 200ish BHP, I assumed they'd be fine...then went along the thought process of small injectors for low revs and the bike injectors for higher up...but space for the two fuel rails was proving hard to find as the bike bodies are really short.
    Added to unknown linkage linearity...I gave up and got some Jenveys.

    The injectors are a non-car standard shape too...long and thin. Nippon Denso perhaps?


    I'd still like to make the ZX bodies work though...just because.
     
  9. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    If your manifold is based on an original VW one, can't you use a 20V fuel rail and the original injector holes?

    I'd have thought you'd have enough room in a Mk3 to extend the manifold, and move the Kwak TB's away from the head, leaving enough room for the rail at the head end.

    I'll have a look at the BMW FPR and see if there's a rating stamped on it.
     
  10. Brookster

    Brookster Paid Member Paid Member

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    interesting information here i will hopefully use.

    i have a 1Y Crank spare if anybody needs one.
     
  11. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    Pics of the JE pistons I bought, by the way. You can see the lower height of the inlet side, compared to the 'dome' (about 1.5mm high). Also note the lower part round the edge of the crown - to avoid any messy contact with the combustion chamber.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Note the workmate and cylinder head in my living room, in the background :lol:
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2009
  12. Brookster

    Brookster Paid Member Paid Member

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    My JE pistons 83.5MM pistons should be here next week , ordered mine with coated shirts as well.

    Got to pick the Block up this afternoon, just looking into the injection side now, following this thread.
     
  13. Ess Three Forum Member

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    Yes, theoretically you could.
    I was running out of ways to get some sort of air horns made and fitted, and get everything in place under the bonnet and behind the radiator.

    I'm sure it would have gone.

    To be honest, I never thought about the 1.8T fuel rail on a modified KR manifold. I only got the 1.8T rail after speaking to F2Stu on here.
    I shall look again...I have a spare 1.8T rail or two sitting about...
     
  14. Ess Three Forum Member

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    Nice pistons!
    I want!
    What CR are you aiming for?


    That's hardcore. :thumbup:
     
  15. Brookster

    Brookster Paid Member Paid Member

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    Here's my old set of Wossner 82.5mm 12.0 : 1 compression to compare, i prefer the JE Design that's why i have gone a similar route, but different spec.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Will post pix of my JE's when they arrive.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2009
  16. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    It should work out between 11.8 and 12.5:1 with the longer stroke crank depending on gasket choice. I'll be aiming for the low to mid end of that range. Need to do some proper measuring up before the final build.

    I've got an 8v cylinder head on the dining table as well - it's called 'no bird'. Did you see any scatter cushions in those pictures??
     
  17. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    1.8t fuel rail bolts straight on if you have a short runner intake of some sort. I'm running one on my 16v turbo. You just need to fabricate a couple of (strong!!!) brackets.
    If you need some pics, let me know.
     
  18. Ess Three Forum Member

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    Fire some pics up sparrow, if you have some.

    I also have a 1.8T inlet manifold mid way through converting to an ABF TB and 16v inlet runners...but that's another project. (I will break 200 BHP! ;) )
     
  19. G60Dub

    G60Dub Forum Member

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    ohhhh I smell a 16VT... ? ....
     
  20. s1m0n Forum Member

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    So reading this (and other) post's it would seem that NA a 2lt 16v can be got up to 170/180 bhp ish for very little money, indeed I would expect mine to be at that level.

    The step from there to around 200 maybe as much as 205/210 takes a bit more but is still reasonably "do-able" but if you want more then it's really going to start costing you from that point on!

    It's a shame, I think NA is just so nice to drive in a FWD chassis (mine's a Corrado not a Golf but you know what I mean), 200/210 in a MK1 (or even a lightened MK2) is OK but in a Corrado it's just not enough!

    Now were did I put that hole saw.....

    Cheers

    Simon
     

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