BAM in Mk2 hits master cylinder

Discussion in '1.8 & 1.8T' started by dUff, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. dUff

    dUff Administrator Admin

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    Hi
    Any ideas on this problem , i have fitted a 20vt BAM to my J plate mk2 valver and the master cylinder hits on the Cam belt pulley, only just but there is no way a can drive it like this. I had it fitted once with lots of stuff missing and got it running , now everything is back in and painted and powder coated found this problem, shiny s**t always causes problems lol

    It has vibratechnics race mounts so not really much scope in movement, i have not tried undoing the bottom bolts yet , but wondered if anyone else has the same problem

    The front mount is pulled about 5mm towards the left and is a pig to to up

    Subframe has been off and went back on ok with new VAG bolts

    Cheers
     
  2. vrbanana Forum Junkie

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    Which subframe are you using + would be easier to work out the solution with a picture
     
  3. dUff

    dUff Administrator Admin

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    Hi
    Using the normal subframe that came with the car

    Here are some pics

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  4. GVK

    GVK Paid Member Paid Member

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    Does the engine sit level in the bay?

    what rear engine mount bracket have you used?

    surely the 20vt should sit the same as a 16v as it's the same block dimensionally.
     
  5. Andy16v

    Andy16v Forum Member

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    You used the engine mount brackets (front and back) from the 16v yeah? same as me...

    You'll also find that with your current set up, even if you grind off part of the master cylinder to clear it, the SAI inlet on the inlet manifold will put a nice dent in your bonnet after a while

    If you get 02A mount brackets (raddo, 16v mk3 golf etc) it should rock the engine forward a touch so you wont get that :thumbup:
     
  6. dUff

    dUff Administrator Admin

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    I used a passat gearbox side mount as running a 02A and the engine side bracket that came with it ( was fitted in another mk2 ) so i do wonder if i should get my 16v rear bracket on it and check that ,a mate has a AEB in his and can get the cam cover on his , he suggested undoing the bottom bolts on the engine mount on the engine side

    Engine sits level looks good


    [​IMG]
     
  7. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Is the front engine bracket from a Corrado or Passat? The Vibratech mount looks a bit too tall for me raising and sending the engine backwards toward firewall.
     
  8. dUff

    dUff Administrator Admin

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    Yeah i am using a passat front engine mount bracket, have done for years on my previous valver setup but guess there is more room with that if they different , i had assumed they were the same height but the are different in design a bit, dont think i have one to compare them , time to a visit to the scrap yard next week
     
  9. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    31 code Passat is the same as Corrado. So if that is the case you are fine on the bracket.
    The mount though looks tall. You may need to use the flater wider OE engine mount. This is what I use for ABF conversions. You may rip it out if you perform an emergency start though...
     
  10. MUSH Forum Member

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    cant remember....?
    for the rear engine mounting bracket you need this part mate...357199354

    it costs 31 from the dealers and comes on passats, cant remember which year though. its a little longer than the standard mk2 mount and pushes the engine away a good 10-20mm ish from the master cylinder. it also makes the engine sit perfect height wise. its what ive got on mine and i can fit the cambelt cover with a good 10mm to spare.
     
  11. StuMc

    StuMc Moderator and Regional Host - Manchester Moderator

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    Whilst investigating all the bits for doing mine (AUM in MK2) I read that you need to grind down the m/c to help clear the cam cover.

    However, having fitted the engine I found there was a good 10-15mm clearance. (it did catch the m/c on the way in). I`m using G60 Corrado mounts all round.
     
  12. dUff

    dUff Administrator Admin

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    Cheers for the comments , been on a mission today and tried a few things that people have suggested , many thanks

    First up sourced 3 types of mounts , Standard GTI and a toledo one ( cheers jimmy123 ) and compared them to the passat one i have
    tried all three and all give the same height , but the standard GTI mount can only bolt on 2 bolts not 3 because i am using 02A

    [​IMG]

    Tried all these made no difference and engine is the same height


    Next up after a PM from Fatt Mk1 , checked out a mates master cyclinder that i suspect is VR6 but not sure , so off to look at a mk3 VR6 tomoz night

    Here is a pic a mates mk2 VR6 master cyclinder its alloy so could be the one , but seems to be the same length
    [​IMG]

    This is not great tho , check this alignment , stuck in a standard mount just to make sure

    [​IMG]

    Here is the measurement of my current master cyclinder, i did try a VAG item ( well think it is , it only has 3 holes not 4 )
    That was only about 3mm short tho
    [​IMG]

    So what to check next
    - Measure up a Mk3 VR6 master cylinder see if its shorter than 45mm
    - Replace vibra techincs rear mount with VAG item and replace rear engine mount to known good 16v item
    - Need to find out which way i need to move , Back to short master cyclinder or move engine towards the gearbox end

    Anyone know which way i need to move ? from their 20vt install
     
  13. PhatVR6 Forum Junkie

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    its the back mount. there's 3 different lengths, the longest being a passat TDI. that will push the motor away from the MC and also sort out that alignment issue on your front mount.
     
  14. Alfonzo bonzo Forum Member

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    As people above said, the rear mount is the issue, it will push the engine around so the front mount lines up straight.

    The master cylinders are all more or less the same lenght but the mk3 one is much flatter on the side by the cambelt side. The one in the pic is again a 4 outlet and different to a factory mk3 gti/vr6 one. The rear mount on its own will help loads! the master cylinder is a bonus.
     
  15. dUff

    dUff Administrator Admin

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    Cool cheers for the info and part number

    So looked for the part number "357 199 354" and found this match

    In which case i may have one of these already knocking about somewhere as this is out of a 1992 9A model passat

    But that part number is "357 199 354 G"

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-B...emQQimsxZ20090922?IMSfp=TL0909221410002r16872

    Also someone on clubgti wanted the G60 parts and found that here
    http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119636

    http://www.clubgti.com/FORUM/showthread.php?t=103046
    20v conversion work
    http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62466&page=9&highlight="357+199+354"

    That said it the same as the 9A

    Another match on dubforce
    http://www.dubforce.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=18277&st=0&p=125764&#entry125764

    PVW
    http://forum.performancevwmag.com/viewtopic.php?p=307711&sid=bc9982b0f5e3d315a08b0f11bbaa7050


    Cool so hopefully its a stock item i have somewhere , sweet may have a day off tomoz and mission it
     
  16. gillm

    gillm ***** User

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    stock item lol


    if not have a hunt round in the lock up mate , im sure i have 1 maybe 2 .
     
  17. Alfonzo bonzo Forum Member

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    That 9A mount is what you need.
     
  18. dUff

    dUff Administrator Admin

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    Sweet , thanks for your help everyone, dont think its is the 9A mount but will check tomoz

    Passats
    "357 199 354 - Manual Gearbox 2E,1Y,SB,AAM,AAZ,ABS,ABN,EZ,ACX
    "357 199 354 C" - Manual Gearbox KR,9A
    "535 199 354 B" - Automatic KR,9A,2E,EZ,AAM,ABS,ABN,1Y,SB

    Golfs Mk2
    Mk2 16v runs a "357 199 354 C"
    Syncro runs a "357 199 354 F" and this is also found in a rally so is for PG, 1H

    Corrado
    "357 199 354" - KR engine if some chassis number or greater
    "357 199 354 C" - KR, PG, 9A, 2E, ADY
    "357 199 354 B" - Auto


    "357 199 354 J" 1993 - 1999 Mk3
     
  19. StuMc

    StuMc Moderator and Regional Host - Manchester Moderator

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    As before I`m using G60 Corrado mounts, but the brackets are standard 8v Mk2, as is the m/c (22mm)...

    The Mk2 front one bolts up fine with two bolts, the third one is an oddity, and only ties in to the third hole on the standard starter. So not a problem on the 02A...

    I also had a similar mis-alignment on the front bracket on first fitting the engine, but slackened of the rear and gearbox mounts and with a bit of `jiggling` (two man job!) it dropped in, and all the mounts re-tightened no problem.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2009
  20. Crispy 8V CGTI Committee - Club Secretary Admin

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    also worth noting various servos are different in sizes, one with larger diameter diaphragm may be thinner unit bringing M/C closer the bulkhead

    I'm not a definitive knowledge on this by a long way [:s] :(

    just a thought
     

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