a clio with a golf engine - that in my book is a clio. But a mk1 golf with a honda engine and gearbox (and driveshafts and bits needed to fit the whole thinng) is in the same place IMO. Wonder what would be said if that car took some sprint records at inters ? would it be acceptable to have this at the top of the standings back of PVW ? with a honda engine - I think not (my own opinion). Likewise, the Dubweiser 'golf' is not a golf IMO, its an audi quattro with some body mods. And I dont think Max's 'Ibiza' is an ibiza anymore either, but if it took a load of records / trophies at a major vag meet, I would love to see the reaction.....
Ultimately it boils down to having VAG genes or not. Kim Collins/QST used to bring a SWB Quattro along to Inters (possibly winning the sprint in the early '90s - distant recollection), so the Dubweiser car is viewed as a similar animal - but anyway it's got the genes. PVW would probably list the Gonda or Holf , but for something which has a higher importance of the moment eg Inters, the organisers would be smart enough to consider carefully what is being entered (and those with an eye on the ball would also give their input), and distinguish what the entry is eligible for in terms of trophies. I have some distant recollection of a mongrel squeezing in on the sprint entry last year, but since it made no impact, it was an irrelevance.
It's definately a Golf - it's even got an engine drived from the original GTI unit... I don't mind what parts someone fits - I'd rather see a Mk1 Golf with a Fiat Twincam engine still on the road than a Mk1 Golf with a knackered engine sitting in the scrap yard!
As for VAG sprint events etc I’d still like to see the cars run but be excluded from any prises/time listing, a bit like M’s cars at curb. The cars obviously in its own class so can’t be compared to the main bulk of the entrants, but still nice to see run.
I have just been reading all the posts about Grants car and though Id join this forum to have my say. I had a hand in building this car although Grant has done the vast majority himself with some help and limited funds and for this he should be applauded not put down as some people are doing. For somebody in their garage to decide and undertake such a project without being part of a major company is a feat in itself and this was part of the reason he did it in the first place to prove it can be done and on a budget. When the car was being built it would have been much easier to make a spaceframe chassis and make the panels fit over it but no we thought it would be better to make the engine fit into the car, so you can appreciate this took alot more work to carry out and some of the floorpan had to be modified as a consequense. It was also built for one purpose not to be pretty so instead of fitting a costly bodykit he made his own wheel arches and did his own body mods, I will be the first person to say its not the prettiest car about but this was never top of the prioroties list anyway. I dont recall many people ****ging the Dubsport cars over the years for their approach to performance tuning and nor should they as they were the benchmarks that everyone else had to follow if they wanted to beat their times. I feel the Vw scene can be dominated by peoples perception of how a car should look or what it should have under the bonnet all Grant has done is what his opinion of the perfect golf should be and actually carry that out, so for this I think its a Golf and always will be.
I suppose if your really want to stress the point you need to add Porsche in the equation as they all have the same humble beginings... VAG = Volkswagen Audi Group with a bit of Seat, Skoda and Porsche. Not to sure about people adding Reno, Honda and Subaru engines to there VAG cars that's taking it to far in my book.....
I think you've hit the nail on the head there stoker - people can be picky on forums about how things should look, but I don't think you should be offended by what's written. Easy for perfectionism to come into it too much on the forums. Certainly the car does the business!
i agree with stoker. too many sheep. people do stuff because its 'the norm' or what other people are doing. my 16v has doesnt have a vr6 chin, dispite loads of other people doiing it.. i decided not to, cos i dont have a vr6 lol same with the pin stripe, im suprised i wasnt slated for attempting to imitate an anniversary (translation: going against the norm). the car has a great big engine conversion... hardly a bad thing is it? at least its still a VAG performance orientated lump, could have been something random like a Vauxhall Senator 3.0 V6 lol
It's an awesome car matt & what this thread was asking was people's opinions on what you would call or describe a car when it starts using large amounts of parts from another make. To me it's a hybrid Audi/Golf, one name cannot describe it & you would be cheating yourself to think of it as just a Golf.
This seema abit of a pointless thread, these people have spend alot of time and money building this car and now you want to pick holes if they are allowed to call it a golf??? i thinks its a wicked bit of engineering
So pointless you had to comment though eh ? FFS, I am not saying its a bad thing, just to be clear, its a great piece of engineering, novel, goes well, great to see, fantastic But its not a golf anymore IMO. This is irrelevant until you compare its performance against another golf, like what happens at many speed events / back of PVW etc. So if you accept these line of discussion, when modifying a car, at what point is it no longer the starting car anymore......thats what the thread is about. If you change the engine and box and put a honda motor in - is that still a golf ? If you do the same but put an audi engine in - is that still a golf ? How about if you took a Mk1 golf body and stuck it on a 4wd 911 turbo floorpan ? - is that still a golf ? How about if you did the same but on subaru running gear ? If you take a golf engine and gearbox and stick it in a clio - is that a golf ? Thats what this thread is about - not dissing the dubweiser car - the builders of that car can be proud that they get people thinking about these things
IMO i dont like anything using parts outside of the VAG group. but i can still appreciate the engineering of it. as for when does a car stop being the original car. gotta be partly when it doesnt look like the original car and when the structural charachteristics are changed beyond a certain point. but i think thi is an argument that can never be won
haha funny you should mention that as that is the example i wasn thinking of. I recall seeing that black clio up at inters going up the strip an prior to each run the guy was lighting up the tires, he had his shades on an thought he was cool as Fuk and was taking it dead seriously, but to me i was just giggling thinking you look a tool in a clio an only thing that makes it good is the engine the most important component hahahahahaha soz if someone on here. i do appreciate how much time and work must have gone into putting the lump into a clio but keep asking myself why why why....
