TSR 9A engine stripped lightened and balanced in conjunction with split duration Schrick cams on KJet (ARP fastners used where possible) 201bhp (flywheel) & 160lbft @ Stealth 2004 with warm up reg mod. Magnex 4 into 1 manifold - Full Remus system Ignition setting 12` BTDC Ignition leads - standard Plugs - Bosch Super 4 Airbox has the lower section mostly removed .. JR (blue) panel filter 020 16V box & shortened FD Quaife ATB (Previously standard ratios) thats the mods he has listed on his members gallery Chris.
was just about to ask what the "thing" was seems that CFJ is a very well set up and fettled car. 16v shootout anytime soon?
I think the extra oomph over most other kjet cars came down to well dialled-in cam timing (after much RR trial & error), raised rev limit & a refurbished fuel system. Il have to quiz him on compression ratio. The plots tend to show it only has the legs at the top end though-cams?? Barny & Speedo both topped 200bhp at Stealth too did they not? I'm sure Graham has an old 9A from a Passat in his which he matter-of-factly revs to 7800 day in day out. Not aware of extra compression. Again il try to find out...
When you say high compression are we talking different pistons or skimming of block and head. How far fro standard would it be? Why does a higher final drive help in terms of ign advance? less load on the engine so to speak?
i don,t think ther was any big secret in ianb engine, been down tsr many of time having a set up side by side in the good old days,. thers a lot more to setting k jet up than people think and dont for get grayham and adrian former tsr wher masters of it .but befor you even start you need to check 1 you got full 12 volts at your fuel pump. 2 you got good fuel pressue at you metering head. 3 metering head is functioning properly 4 spray pattern on injectors is healthy. 5 test injectors metering head are spraying delivering equil amount of fuel 6 so that even befor you start ignition and cam time , cos if you aint got good fueling your going no where, then you need a healthy engine with all the trimmings to trimsport old mk1 produced 5 or 10 bhp more than ians , side by side on a rr day running k jet , same cam profile and engine built not by tsr.but stock internals , my personal experience with k star that it was a waste of kin time and money. toyotec you can experiment with a full k star set up if you like , perhaps do a Brian G on it , vince mosley ,llandeilo a old school tuner was the last person i knew that had the soft wear for k star some one organise a 16v rr day , they were always a good laugh and loads of banter
I spoke to Graham on the phone last night & had a good chat about CFJ & his own motor. He confirmed neither his nor Ian's engines are high comp for anyone doubting it.... Yes-TSR did prepare Blochys' Slick 50 racer- with hours and hours of dyno time spent testing and developing the setup. Lessons learnt from that were no doubt employed on 16v road cars they prepped at the time but no extra trick bits or "things" exist....all myth! The secret of the good output is the countless long days and nights spent experimenting on the dyno tweaking. The car and engine setup were developed over a long period of time thanks to persistence and knowledge of what works and what doesn't... A few years back GVK bought the same cams and tried them in his 2L 16v & found them not to his taste. He was not running a raised rev limit nor did he have the benefit of the lengthy dyno time/experience to find the sweet spot. Net result was he didnt get the same result and sold the cams on after 1 morning on the dyno...
Suggest a 16v plenum dyno day to end all dyno days: TrackCab16v (ABF) vw_singh (ABF) ianb (9A) barny (ABF) chrismc (ACE) 3hirty8ight / jtechboy / JamesG60 an other Mk2 Golf c/ship representative car (KR) ?owner? (speedo's old engine) (RE2000, KR/9A dependent on year) Ian Wingate (ABF) Stu (rollerskate) (ABF) + more? Chris, thank you for speaking to Graham about this - if information is flowing, can you ask him about whether inter-cam verniers are fitted and (just to confirm) whether they use a 92.8mm crank?
FD went from 3.67 to 4.25 ........ Interesting to see what info is resurfacing / being updated and the associated interpretations / opinions ... I have the utmost respect for the people that together produced CFJ
Good evening everbody couldn't resist posting on the forum as I can't still believe after all these years that the 16v k jet debate still lives. Just to dispell any myths there is nothing wierd, trick, secret or other wise about CFJ and my own car VUC. My engine was built when I used to work at TSR with a second hand well worn 9A from a local breakers. It has had no bottom end tricks except a baffled sump and windage tray. It still hasn't had an oil pump! This was originally put in a 90 spec mk2 valver and used every day for about a year then transplanted into VUC. The engine was only built to annoy ianb and to prove the point that CFJ could be replicated. The only reason K jet was retained ultimately was cost compared to gain in bhp although I understand now that K jet bits are quite pricey so other set ups may be of benefit on cost and performance fronts. All of the r and d on the 16v engines did come from the slick 50 days where hours and hours were spent with vw motorsport parts, standard parts and TSR parts were tried and tested but honestly even some of the VWMS parts were binned becaused we couldn't get them to work. The r and d was done due to the slick 50 regs which were a pain but bare in mind steve blochs car run around 220bhp on a stock exhaust manifold and 8 v down pipe. What has to be born in mind is at TSR at the time we were threatened with a noise abaitment order due to the amount the rollers were used especially into the small hours. Again there is no trickery as such only time and effort. Graham (EX TSR) Still thrashing a MK2.
good to hear from you gray, do you have access to any rollers now , my engine is still running your cam settings that you done , are you still up for any tuning work nowa days , got some cams same as ians i personaly miss you ,ade , and the old rollin road , still got the old jetta to . paul
Hiya Paul and Andy. Sorry don't have access to rollers anymore! Again the k jet debate continues but just to let you all know we did build a 2litre 8v with x flow head and itb's with DTA that gave 200 brake and probably a better torque spread than the 16v but was that ever big bucks. We tried to stick to K star and k jet purely through cost but I am sure that the megasquirt/ emerald/dta motec on itb's in the right hands is a good way to go but unfortunately I left TSR before I could play with it all. Good to hear from you Graham.
Was Steve Bloch's car a 2 litre 16v ? And also was it still running K-jet to produce 220bhp? It's good to know that with enough time and patience kjet can still be a good system to use,
Yes steves car did still have k jet albeit a motorsport metering head with standard flap. Yes it was still 2 litre and was a complete animal as a road car as you couldn't keep it in a straight line at speed. I know as I drove it from watford to bridgwater one day years ago.
Can I join in then! There's no secrets in CFJ as Chris EYRE implies ! I now own the car again....it's full spec was posted on hear years ago.....and again recently by myself and Jamesa. It's well set up Kjet which used a well dyno proven cam set up...which was testedin the US according to Bill Brockbank who supplied the cams. The car is even better now on it's shorter FD and with it fully restored it's a real peach which I'm glad to have back. Hopefully I will visit Inters where if interested the car will be.....as well as it's other home Castle Combe. Ian
Ian, there has been deliberate secrecy surrounding the spec of your car for a number of years, which is pointless you denying. Only yesterday I was chatting to someone who independently pointed that out, off the back of this thread. On top of all the other conversations over the years on this forum and off it. That's not me, developing my own ideas about what's going on: that's a consensus Would you use someone else's car as a reference point if you didn't know the spec of it in some very key areas? I'm sure you'll agree it's simply not scientific to do so. Hence what I said about CFJ objectively not being a valid comparative reference when it keeps being cited as a reference by you or others. That's all I said. Fair enough in the past I suppose, when it's been commercially sensitive information to old TSR, I can understand why that's been a guarded secret. Hours of dyno time as Graham confirmed, I'd not be giving it away too lightly either. Nowadays folk want to keep period K-Jet on their cars, but they're still interested in optimising what they've got with the tools available, hence this thread. If you wish to help folk use your car as a reference tool, what are the cam timing + metering head set ups + modifications? None of those 'in the know' posting on ths thread have told Club GTI members, so I would be delighted if you or others did. If all this is is a tweak of the fuel here, advance there and lining some cams up on a vernier, it costs nothing to enlighten folks but a willingness to help. I even stand to benefit nothing from it, not using K-Jet myself!! Power to the people I say, the very essence of this forum
What conversations are you refering to Chris?? On what authority are you saying it is a consensus? A consensus by whom. People who know the car from older posts reported when the car was done years ago will know the specfication of the car...nothing out of the ordinary for that period of tuning. My car was featured several times in VW Driver by Peter Noad and nothing was left out of the spec in the articles....I still have the magazines. The car's spec was put on here years ago...nothing has ever changed from it's original build. Graham and Chris have already answered the technical questions that I know. The only clarifications to the fuelling/set up is that I bought a new metering head from AmD when we converting to 2 litres using a Passat block which was balanced by TSR. The tank pump was pants so we changed that and disconnected the alarm as it was draining voltage to the fuel pump which livened things up considerably. Graham measured the fuel delivery line by line using some sort of measuremnet device. The fuelling was spot for a Kjet unit on as a result of their fettling. The inlet was also was also polished (usual mod) and I used a good exhaust system for optimum flow and noise (Remus). The airbox is the larger variety and has been opened up to get as much air in to maximise flow. The ignition timing is set at 10 degrees static...sometimes more dependant on climate/time of year/fuel etc. There were some dyno's of my car done by Vince somewhere on here that gives an indication of torques and power delivery after he had dyno tested it. Perhaps somebody can post it. Kjet IMO although crude does work when set up well when set up by someone with knowledge.
