Koni Adjustables/ARB trackday settings

At the moment I have my rear konis on the middle setting. I'm hoping to put just a rear Eibach ARB on before the weekend (leaving the front as std) and was wondering whether I should change the shocks setting while I'm at it.

What setting do people run for trackdays? I'm also hoping to play with the front settings. The track is Goodwood if it makes any difference. Looks like it could be wet so I don't really want it to oversteer, a little sliding is fine .

Thanks

 

I've got 2 thoughts on this one.

1. If you change anything other than the ARB you wont be able to gauge the change.

2. Stiff shocks + stiffer ARB will give you very quick weight transfer with little body roll, which will make the car very sharp but maybe not very forgiving in the wet.

I think if it were me I'd fit the bar, try it and then maybe try softening the shocks.

But I wouldn't anyway as the idea of fitting just a rear ARB is stupid on a FWD that from the factory has a tendency to understeer.

 

It's still got the standard ARB on the front which is powerflexed. I don't think there is much difference between the standard 16v arb and the eibach one, is there?

I was toying with the idea on getting a neuspeed one but was advised just to use a standard front arb.

 

I'm very sorry if this sounds like a very condesending question, but do you know what you are trying to achieve by fitting the rear bar?

 

You want the car as soft as possible in the wet, 'real' racers disconnect their ARBs even

<Ian Carvells tip>
If you get a lot of oversteer in the wet, let the rear tyres down 5 psi

I tried it at Donington in the wet and the rear was a lot more stable, besides, altering tyre pressures is one of the most important things to set up on the track, a lot of people ignore it - NO! experiment, it costs nothing!

Standard 16v front ARB is 18 or 19mm Eibach is 22mm.

I too was going to upgrade my rear Eibach ARB to a 28mm adjustable Neuspeed, to get the rear of the car working more,but as it is now it has caught me out mid corner on the road, so going to leave it as it is.

Generally more damping on the front will induce understeer, more on the rear will induce oversteer.

One last thing, what works for me on my car and driving 'style' may not work on someone elses!

edit - we never get much discussion about things like this -why?

Lots of us do track days but no-one likes to share their info, WHY? We're not f'kin racing so why not share our knowledge?


Edited by: G_V_K

 

No, that's fine and to be completly honest I've not had much experience of ARBs which is why I'm asking the questions. All I know is that fitting the ARBs inproves the handling of the car on track as it's been well documented (I only drive it on the road to and from events). What I don't want is for me to set up the car and for it to chuck me off at the first corner with something I wasn't expecting. I've known too many people be killed in little pugs because of snap oversteer.

I suppose really the question is what is the optimum set up but I know that would start a debate and we'd never really get an answer? I know it's down to personal preference but I'd like a starting point. I think I've now decided to leave the rear bar off and leave the rear settings the same. I'll play with the front setting to see what that does. Then I'll get an uprated front bar once I know how it will affect the handling. But if I don't know something that I'll ask someone who does. There are loads of helpful people on here.

 

If it's a track only car and you are going to be tuning the suspension, then perhaps adjustable ARBs is a better bet?

 

surely you do not want to be f**kin around putting strengthened ARB on front OR Back unless you are trying to produce a car with unreal under or oversteer.

Are you only buying one ARB because of cost?

I personally find a slight understeer on a more powerful front wheel drive car produces a faster "feeling" car as it has the power to pull the nose in the direction you want.
Oversteer in rallying is most often used to scrub speed and line up the car for the oncoming corner.. by definition slowing the car down.

It is fun but doesn't help you steer round a corner faster.

Are you looking for a slip sliding fun tail wagging track day car or one that holds corners and puts 2G on your spleen when you go flat out through that 70 degree left hander?

 

Actually I bought the parts from a smashed car, the front was bent but the back bits were fine and so I got them cheap.

The reason for the ARBs is because I've seen cars flying round various circuits and I think the key to going faster is carrying more speed thro the corners which you seem to be able to do with ARBs. But maybe I'm wrong.

 

Right guys, ARB's in themselves DO NOT improve handling.

What they do is control dynamic camber and rate of weight transfer.

The reason why people report improved handling after fitting stiffer ARB's on Golf's etc is becasue it reduces body roll and with it dynamic camber change, this gives a better tyre contact patch.

ARB's are used on road cars to limit the above without impacting ride quality as much as stiff springs would, which have the same effect.

Once you get past improving the dynamic camber change ARB's are purley used to change the handling balance of a car, giving more under or oversteer depending on the conditions and the drivers preference.

 

ok golden that sounds cool, now sounds like you don't rate a stiff rear bar on a fwd car? might just be me....

"But I wouldn't anyway as the idea of fitting just a rear ARB is stupid on a FWD that from the factory has a tendency to understeer."

now as far as i have learned so far stiffer front bar means less front grip and more understear

stiffer rear bar, more overstear?

pretty much the whole of the banjo players on vortex reckon on no front bar and a really stiff rear bar, but is this just to try and make it feel like a live axle mustang?

not raggin on you just after the facts ma'am
Edited by: prof

 

For what it`s worth I ran fully soft on the Koni`s at Donnington when it was p1ssing it down and was amazed at the grip.

I run std arb`s and find it nigh on imposible to induce oversteer in the dry (maybe I`m a puuf!) The blokes with eibach arbs seem able to oversteer quite easy, I though this is because you stiffen the back up far more (2 arbs) while only making the front a little stiffer, could be wrong.

I like the car as it is (no nasty surprises) but I can see the point of oversteer on demand, at least you won`t understeer off the side of the road if you get a corner wrong

 

Yup! - You could fit 500-600lb rear springs which would do the same job, but you wouldn't want to drive far on the road

 

spot on gvk - thats exactly how we ran the formula first in the wet at silverstone.
you also want to give more brake bias to the rear (about 3 turns if you have a dial thingy is usually about right).

when doin any handling mods you have to know what you are tryin to achieve. if you haven't done track driving before i wouldn't go all out on mods until you see how the car works as it is. cars feel very different on track, compared to road driving. do you have to much oversteer, or too much understeer? don't worry about grip as such, try and get a balanced car - it'll be more fun!

FWD cars do tend to understeer, so generally you want to give it more front end grip.

also, how you drive makes a difference. i'm a really smooth driver so i can get away with more oversteer than most. if you tend to be very aggressive on the controls, you'll spin a car that i won't! (as you'll unsettle it more) so you either need to have a car with less oversteer or smoothen up your drivin (which is a good thing anyway).

and then of course theres personal taste. like everything in life, different people like different things. i like a very positive turn in, i like a car to feel very responsive, almost to the point of making the car twitchy. i know of one person in particular who hates twitchy cars, but that could be a confidence thing.

 

yep you're right...like anything, stiff rear/soft front = oversteer, and vice versa.

 

Keep 'em coming

BTW the joke section is......

 

I'm really confused now

I've been told that I'm a smooth driver but at my last day at Castle Combe I seemed to be getting loads of understeer. I felt that I could have added more power through the corner but I was just drifting wide. Maybe I need to experiment with the shock settings/tyre pressures first, or maybe I just need to learn another technique for driving the car quickly. Oh well, I'll have a play on Saturday, looks like it's gonna be dry now according to the BBC weather website.

 

Brake more Matt

It only sounds faster if you go squealing through the corner

 

you're goin into the corners too fast! rememebr slow in = fast out.

usually tighter corners right?

the tendancy is for novices to go into slow corners too fast, and fast corners too slow (got that from the race school - not sayin you're a novice tho)

if you just try and be really sedate going into corners, you'll be on the power sooo early. do this and you'll gain seconds in lap time!
Edited by: acf8181