New slicks - where to buy and which brand?

Softs/super softs on the front will be useless within a few lap. I have been using a new test compound from Avon last season. They are a medium/soft compound but Avon testing show that they last longer that there current medium touring car compound. it would only take me half a lap to get them up to temp (that's with a 1 lap rolling start).

I would agree with you Jon, i think dunlop is a better tyre for circuit racing and there wets are spot on.

A major problem for me was getting the rears to heat up and i have actually had to lose front end grip to give the rears more of a chance to get up to temperature. The tire pressures would come up no problem but the didnt have the heat in them. i was going to move to a soft compound hillclimb rears to give me the grip from the start but i decided to just be brave and stick with it. i did get use to it and it doesn't seem as bad now, think i was just being a wimp.

Like Pascal77uk says silly amounts of bhp through a 200 section tyre will just destroy them. The extra width is needed purely for traction to help put down the power. I'm not convinced you will be able to fit the 235/605R16 Dunlop. There really is no easy solution to trying to put this much power through a FWD mk1 golf!!!!!

Jon, i had the moulds take of the original Kamei race car before i sold it. They we're then reworked to get them spot on before hand. I was so fed up with the crap that was out there. They are now spot on and give you so much more clearance too. Unfortunately they are not cheap at 500 a set but you'll save you money back at the body shop with no mucking around getting crap ones to fit!!

 

I race short 5 lap or 15 minute sprints but in much warmer climes, Melbourne, Australia.

I'm having great success on the TOYO R888s in the fairly stock size of 185/60/14 on the current MK1.

With the new car which is fitted with berg cup arches I'm planning to run 225/45/15 on 8 inch rims in the TOYOs if I can get them but more likely Hoosiers which also rate well down here.

225/45/15 is an odd size but is gaining popularity with the Mazda MX5 crowd so availability is improving.

Yokohama Advans are also a popular tyre choice down here.

 

Nick/Mike - When you sau 200 section tyres, what are we talking here?

200/580R15 are quoted as having 216mm width. The 225/580R15 is quoted at 250mm width...

Would that not mean that even the 200's will be almost an extra inch of footprint over say, a 195/50 R888?

The Reeves seem to manage fine. Are they not on 15's? Slicks? What size?

What power are you putting out?

Btw - This is exactly why I was reluctant to mention a power figure before. Could everyone just calm down a little! The setup may well put that out as a headline figure but it will not be on high boost all of the time.

 

By 200 section we a mean the tyres like a 205/580/15. as there are slight variations in all manufactures sizing (195-205 all being about the same).

The Reeves ran 225/580/15 dunlops. They have the last of the batch, they have now been discontinued. Hence they are now experimenting with different wheels themselves (16's with a 210 tyre). They run about 360bhp with the capability of an extra 100bhp if traction is good. You must remember the experience of the drive here and the ability to use the power effectively. Many other factor also help deploy that increased power such as a developed front end with much wider track. They are also in the same boat as the rest of us with a limited tyre choice.

 

Thanks for the info Nick. One of the suppliers I was looking at was listing the width for a '200' section tyre as 216mm but then after looking at HP tyres, they have a more info on the specs and it shows that 216mm is overall, but actual tread width is 195mm, as you were indicating...

My car will run 3 maps, low, medium and high boost, so should be able to have some control there. The throttle linkage has adjustabilty to allow more travel higher up the revs, so that should help manage control somewhat.

You must also remember that while the Reeves are no doubt vastly experienced drivers with an impressive track record in competition, their experience will not impact on my own ability to adjust a throttle and drive a car

You are all correct with the limited tyre choice, it is a PITA. Spoke with a few suppliers today and they are going to have a phone around and see if there are any available from other manufacturers but I suspect the answer will be no.

Starting to think about 16's now...

 

Starting to look at this now as starting to look like only option. Will see what work is going to be involved with bodywork on 235/16 front and 210/16 rear.

If I go to 16's for slicks and wets, as I have the 15's, I was thinking of using these for intermediate rubber as I am definately not going to buy another 3 sets of wheels, 2 sets is already a scary thought [:^(]

The Dunlop trackday stuff looks a little narrow for the 8's but you get the R888's AO48's and Khumo V70A Ecsta in a 225/50.

The R888 is the only one available is a 235/50

What are folks using for intermediates? a trackday type tyre?

 

Evening,

You will not need inters. Just slick or wets like the touring car boys. if you want inters you can just use a set of warn wets. If its dry enough for inters run slicks on the front and wets on the back for the grip and heat.

 

If you can get a 235/605/16 to fit under your arches you may as well run the old btcc standard tyre of 235/610/17. such a small change in profile and you will be able to pick up loads of cheap tyres as there is loads out there. BUT if i honest i dont think you would get either to fit. its a tricky one!!!

 

That looks right

Did you have clearance issues with the 245's on the shock? Would thought that would be too close - what offset were the wheels?

Edit - Just re-read your post, ET25! Mine are ET25 and does not look like a 235 would fit!



I remember your mk1. Do you still own it?

 

Thats exactly what i do.

 

Sorry Ali think i have confused you with my post, it was in reference to that there is a 235/16 and i run on a 235/610/17 on the Mk3 in reference to Nick's post. On my mk1 the max i ran was a 225 width on a 8j rim et25 and 3mm spacers.

As i posted earlier and what Nick has just said above about using use the slick front worn wets rear combo it works very well

Also don’t touch track day tyres they are ****. Slicks have very different side walls and are a lot stiffer which means you can run lower starting pressures to get heat into the tyres quicker and also give a much sharper turn in and you will hit apexes much easier.

If you feel like you need a intermediate then buy a cut slick! but i wouldn’t bother.

Technically i still do own my mk1. My names on the log book which i have but i dont look after her havent seen her in 3 years, my friend keeps it in a lock up and uses it a few times a year.

 

I know Pirelli used to do an N3 intermediate rally tyre in 225/600/16. I still have a set in the shed on rims, if thats any help. I used them for damp winter rally, or mixed wet/dry stages

 

Ali, you are you running wheel studs are you not?

I can take a Borbet alloy up for you to try and we can put some spacers on the studs to mock up say an 8x16" low ET rim to see how the arch clearance is?

The Borbet is a 7.5x16" ET35 but only has a 195/40 R16 tyre on so may not be much use?

The Compos I have are an 8x16" ET10 with 215/40 R16 but they are 5x100 so no use.

 

That sounds like a plan Martin.

It would be good to bring one of the compo's as well as can just hang it off one stud and get some measurments that way.

Cheers

 

Ali,

I have a set of 205/55 x 16 Summer tyres for comparison if required.

 

Thanks for the offer Andrew but think there is a 205 in the shed somewhere, will have to look it out.

Did a bit of checking today on a 195/50/15 R888, 185/580/15 Dunlop cut slick and a Dunlop 185/50/15 full slick that I had in the garage just to get an idea of differences between manufacturers specs.


I also managed to get a few measurments off a Westfield racer running Avon 195/530/13 rubber for comparison and was on an 8" rim.

This is a '195' Avon...












The R888 came in bang on 195mm for tread 'footprint' and an overall width of 205mm (7" rim)

The Dunlop full slick and cut slick were also pretty much coming as quoted with 185mm tread and 205mm overall so with the 200 Dunlop, I see what you are saying re a 195mm tread width getting hammered.

The exception is the Avon but I dont know if the pics from the one above is a crossply or a radial - maybe make a difference?

I spoke with BMTR this morning and Avon do radials in a 190/570/15, 205/580/15, and 225/580/15. They also do a 230/550/15 which caught my eye...

However, after speaking with the BMTR guy, seems like the 205/580/15 is a good bet as this has a tread width of 208mm and overall width of 218mm, means pretty much 1/2" more rubber down than the '200' Dunlops we were talking about earlier....

The Avon 225/580/15 looks like it will be too big coming in at 225mm fooprint (which is nice) but 240mm overall, which leans running spacers and doing bodywork.

They say that 8" is right for the 205 and after seeing the '195', I think I am swaying towards this. I can also get it in all compounds, whereas I am very limited with Dunlop. I would go 205 on front in a medium compound and maybe a 190 rear in soft. It means I should be able to run as is because anything more and I need to change the wings and probably a wider wheel, bigger offset etc

Mike - how the hell did you get a 225 with a 3mm spacer to fit?! lol

Mine are 8" wide and et25 and the lip of the rim already sits just proud of the arch!

The wings will get changed at a later stage (probably after they have been bashed) and might do this along with some sort of 'Aero' package and then I can make a change to 225/235 etc and consider 16"

What are folks thoughts on Avon?

Alos, the chap also suggested considering crossplys as they are only 10 lap races and I would have to run less camber to get the working, which sounds good for traction - thoughts?

Is crossply not a bit 'old skool' or should I consider this also?

Cheers

 

I can't help thinking that looking for the absolute maximum width front tyres may not be quickest way around the lap. Is an extra 1/2" rubber a side going to make the night and day difference this thread is hinting at? I seriously doubt it. But that's just my opinion

 

Avon 205/580/15 is what i have been running on all last season. I have a set on my ATS DTC's (7") at home. Great tyre but not enough traction for a high powered car like yours 16valver. This is what i'm getting rid of now for my upgrades.

As for the other tyre sizes you have stated. they list them but don't actually make them any more and the if they do stock old runs they are the complete wrong construction. i have had this talk a few times with James at avon. He is a helpful guy and tried very had to find a solution but we just couldn't.

 

Not sure Jon, although my logic seems to be that I want to get the most rubber on the tarmac as it is going to be comprimised at best untill I go 16's.

I have a bit of experience with turbo'ed motors and when the application is FWD, that tells me that you need all the mechanical grip you can get as when those wheels start spinning you lose so much time having to drop the throttle in order to regain traction. In an NA I dont have to release fully, I can just feather it and get traction back. When using turbo, by the time traction is back, you are off boost, so you get a double penalty [:^(]

So, yes, that 1/2" makes all the difference

I had a look at your thread last night and saw you ran avons on those DTC's, so did think you were on that size.

Do you still have one of these fitted on a rim or even on its own you could measure up and take a pic?

As you know Avon sizing, what would it have taken you to go to the 225 Avon (if they do indeed make it!)?

Your rims I guess are ET35 7"x15" - would you have been able to run the Avon 225's with a 10mm spacer and clear the shock? (Ignoring outer clearance for a minute...)

Cheers,
Ali

 

I went from a 210 (216) Hancook slick to a 235 (246) Dunlop slick on the Mk3 and picked up over a second a lap without any other changes. Eventually we picked up another .5 with suspension and geometry tweaks. I’d say that’s night and day!

Everything was better. Turn in was, i was braking later, the brake pedal feel was vastly improved = more confidence in over taking manoeuvres into the braking zone, tyre wear was reduced and tyres didn’t go off after lap 6 Its not just traction! All round winner.

Ali photo of the Jetta track weapon i had on throttle bodies with 225 (228) tyre on the front. Same tyre alloys combo that was on the mk1 Cant remeber if it had 3mm spacers on or what i was using studs tho. I might have been using the 3mm spacer with the 205 tyres. Was 7 years ago. Slicks come up wider than the actual figures compared to the DO1J's i ran.




edit: with a 205 tyre on the rear.