Really?! you'd expect 150bhp and less torque from this setup on a different dyno? Seems like a reasonable number to me?
Id suspect a dyno calibration issue TBH, as a decent 2L valver should be making 140lbs/ft+ no problem. With the best will in the world a pair of correctly timed KR exhaust cams arent going to make peak power at 7500rpm either Back in the day at Stealth, your setup would probably give 170-175BHP & 140-145lbs/ft at Stealth, with a stock rev limit & peaking around 6500rpm
Slightly confused over the above but never mind, i'm not all that bothered with the numbers and am completely over the moon with what i got out of the session. The increase in performance the rr session gave and having graphical proof to support made me even happier. I know the rev limit isn't stock as the limiter kicks in around 8k. What is your estimation above based on? I spent a fair whack on the whole day and it's a little dissearning to hear not just the numbers, peak power and power delivery are all wrong, are you suggesting i call up and suggest that the dyno is completely out ? Once again, im not nit picking over peak numbers but to have every aspects (Power, torque, rev limit, peak power, power delivery) of the readout suggested as inaccurate seems a little odd to me...
I tend to agree with the above. We had a vehicle on the D and D rolls that revved to 8000rpm and made peak power at 6500rpm with around 147lbft peak at 4600rpm then slowly ramping down. This vehicle had cams as well. I find 127lbft to be what a good sorted 1.8 16v will peak at with STD vw inlet and outlet cams in place. In other words a 1.8 16v could be made to feel like a 2.0 16v? However my comments are based on work done on the dyno dynamics rolls. My correlation hat for numbers vs feel comes out to say if feels much better now and runs technically like 1.8 16v then what did it feel like before! Nevertheless if it feels better to you this is what matters. Don't worry.
Guess I will have to get it down to one of the next group rolling road days if I want a reliable power figure and power spread against similar setups! Are the D and D rollers at stealth recognised as being innacurate at measuring power and delivery?
I do not know what make are Stealth's rolls. I could only speak for what I work with and the drive feel after.
Used to be a Sun Ram 12, not sure if they've replaced it, looks to be the same Dyno-plot software from the print-outs. Vince and the guys served me well with my valver from 2002-2006.
Heard nothing but good things about them and their facilities thats why i went, surprised to hear things about how inaccurate their rollers are...
I wouldn't worry too much about that, you went in with a car not running 100%, you came out with it running much better. We all like to talk about the figures, but at the end of the day it's how the car drives and feels that's the most important thing. In 2002 the first time I went to Vince with my 9A he found 20hp by tuning the WUR,fuel pressures and timing and I was as happy as larry. These days with more and more Dyno Dynamics rollers being used though, cars just aren't as powerful as some think. My car was 215 @ Stealth but 'only' 205 on a DD dyno, it still as fast at 205hp as it was when it was measured @215 !! My girlfriend's Edition 30 was 227hp on a DD dyno, exactly 230ps as it should be. Remapped Edition 30 Revo claim 300hp 310 ft/lb, we put the car on the same DD dyno and it was 'only' 278hp 310 ft/lb, it's a VERY fast car at 'only' 278hp. Go on any forum about any car and I bet money the same topic gets repeatedly discussed. As Bill Brockbank says....... "Dyno lottery!"
Yup............agree completely. As I said, DD rollers tend to be accurate and they self calibrate repeatedly from what I understand and tend to read low compared to older cheaper setups which always seem to read high for some reason however the best way to understand the cars is to do back to back testing year on year on the same rollers.
Glad you got it all sorted out ok. Sounds like it was a worthwile trip. For what it's worth we ended up with 189hp @6444 and 158lb/ft @6096 at Stealth last June. They found 8hp on mine and even that felt so much better. Mines a 9A on kjet, flowed head, 50mm flowed inlet, kent cams, 4 branch, Jetex 2.5" exhaust blah, blah, blah... My main reason for going to Stealth was because they know how to setup k-jet.
nice result. get a 4 branch to help with the flowing of the gases. 9a engines are epic and they rev like crazy!! lightened flywheel really helps.
Thanks for the comments, I'm really happy and the improvement is drastic! Have got a four branch fitted will stick that on the setup. Shed head next for me I think!
Looking at the third sheet you've put up, some of the difference between dynos is explained by the estimated transmission losses. From our London day, the FWD O20 cars were mostly around 18%, whereas yours is around 21%. This means a higher flywheel figure is being estimated for the same power at the wheels. At the end of the day it doesn't matter. As long as their rollers are consistent, then you'll see the effect of any future tuning you do - head, 4-branch, or EMS conversion. My old 9A on stock KR Cams, std VAG exhaust, std filter, 42mm manifold, Kjet with WUR mod, made 162.4 bhp at stealth in about 2005. I can't remember the torque figure for sure, but I think it was about 133 lbft. I never took it back after the head/manifold/exhaust mods.
Ok at 18% tranny loss it would come to 164bhp which im still over the moon with! I'd like to get it on the rollers at the same time as a few others on here to investigate the peak power figure and low torque and maybe get some more info on the ecu. Id hope for 10 bhp increase at stealth with a shed head and then will probably leave it at that (read "continue to divert all funds into it....")
You should aim for more torque throughout your rev range rather than chasing peak power figures. Ultimately the torque will determine what "bhp" your engine can achieve.
Not chasing peak numbers just know what my overall build plans are and what i hope to achieve in terms of power from here. Im a bit confused by the torque figure so will probably get it dynoed again somewhere and look into ways of getting some more area under the curve, perhaps a 42mm inlet manifold or try out a different cam combination (got several kr, an abf inlet lying around). Any other ideas?
