Toyotec's how to integrate Megasquirt to your 20vT engine 140911

Discussion in 'Throttle bodies & non-OEM ECUs' started by Toyotec, Apr 1, 2011.

  1. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Introduction.
    So you have ripped your old 8v out and want more power. Something with VR6 like character and torque ( thump) but without the ankorness and the bulk. Well only one engine could do and that is VW's 20vT.

    [​IMG]

    For years since it first appeared in 1995 us enthusiasts have installed them from Golfs mk1 to Elises and as time moves on more engine component options become available to tune these powerplants to as much power as your pockets can afford.
    When it comes to the engine controller many options exist. One of these engine control options is the humble MS engine controller.

    [​IMG]

    Bens_cab was one of the first persons that I know who had a functional system working on his 20vT Cabrio. His cabby still lives on and he was been very active with MK1 owners in supporting MS installs.
    Some early pictures of his car below.

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    I have had the privilege to build, support and calibrate many of these VW 20vT MS installations. However as other priorties begin to set in I thought I would share the process of commencing to integrating the unit to a 20vT.

    Please note, if you are a novice and are looking for a cheap ECU solution, have no skills, do not understand a methodical approach to engineering, then please pay a professional to fit and map a DTA, OMEX, Emerald, Motec, Linx, Haltec, EMS, KMS, Motec, Petcel or any other more expensive system out there. If you are neither of the above please read on :thumbup:. I shall give points how to start mapping but will not be sharing any calibrated files.

    Many variants exist now from the simple MS 1 to MS 3. The system I will cover is a MS1 with extra firmware assembled on a version 3 pcb using a 4 pole coil pack (Sagem, Visteon or Ford Bosch coil pack. I will also mention other VW coil packs that have been used.

    Tools.

    15w soldering iron
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    Solder sucker
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    1mm Solder (PB free)
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    STIM (JSTIM in my case)
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    3rd hand
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    Heat shrink
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    Blow torch
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    PCB cleaner
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    Purchasing a unit.
    MS units can be purchased whole or as a bill of materials (BOM) that you can assemble yourself.

    [​IMG]

    There are many reputable suppliers that can sell you a unit.
    In the case where you maybe up for a challenge to assemble then you can purchase full kits from this link.
    As an option it maybe worthwhile purchasing a stimulator either as a complete unit of as a BOM.
    You will be expected to pay duty plus handling charges for the unit when purchased from the links.


    Unit assembly
    With the unit in hand, use this site to help with assembly MSEFI site for assembly instructions for MS1 or 2 on Ver 3 PCBs
    Follow these steps to build the unit, these are similar to the How to MS your ABF thread.

    Here are some highlights of various stages if the build.

    Bare PCB
    [​IMG]
    Steps 1-3 Board w/ DIP 28 socket and D37 and D15
    [​IMG]
    Steps 4 to 23 5V+UART
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    Testing 5V supply to CPU socket
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    Steps 24 to 41 Comms/Clock install and test
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    Steps 42 to 55 Adding input circuit ( more on VW VR sensor later)
    [​IMG]
    Steps 56 to 80 Output stage added.
    [​IMG]


    When the type of engine speed sensor is to be configured on the ecu follow these steps.
    1.8T engine use a variable reluctance (VR) trigger (G28) which, on cranking can generate up to +/-2v AC. Locate the 2 wires that generate this voltage and label. Information regarding the correct sensor is shown in the image for G28.
    On the MS V3 PCB jumper TACHSELECT to VRIN also Jumper TSEL to VROUTINV.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Install and solder 2 330 Ohm resistors to R26 and R29. Solder to the resistors on the side towards the DB9 connector.

    [​IMG]

    Install at least 2 IGBTs, one per channel for ignition as the system will be run in wasted spark config. use the case for a good heat sink.

    [​IMG]

    Connect IGBT Pin 1 the the exposed end of the 330 Ohm resistor, IGBT Pin 2 to the spark outputs, pin 36 (spark A) and *pin 6 spark B on "spare 4" and IGBT pin 3 to Gnd from proto area.

    The current track on spares 1-4 will need to be made more robust. Use a component end from a resistor or capacitor and fit as in the picture.

    [​IMG]

    Assembling the stim

    Please click on link.

    Connecting to the stim and powering up for the first time.

    Downloading firmware
    The latest MS1 extra code firmware can be found here.
    Downloading the user interface
    The most popular GUI is Tuner Studio. Prior to this many users used and still use Megatune. You download and use either to achieve the same effect.
    Once your MS unit has been updated with the latest software code and it can be tested on the stim.

    Typical 20v sensors/actuator connections

    Bosch NTC Coolant temp sensor/ Cluster gauge G62 and G2, N75
    Bosch NTC Manifold temp sensor G42, and EV1/6 injector connection

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Older G62/2
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    Newer G62/2 sensor found on ME7.x systems
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    N75

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    Older G42

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    EV6, EV1 similar

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2018
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  2. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Engine speed sensor. G28

    [​IMG]

    AEB/ADR/APU

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    AUM/AUQ/BAM

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    J338 8-1pin throttle module.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    2E 8v/ ABF 3 pin throttle body and sensor

    Pin 1 5v tach ref
    Pin 2 Signal to MS pin 26
    Pin 3 Earth

    Non amplified coil packs (3 pin) and amplified coil pack (4 pin)

    [​IMG]

    3pin external amplified

    [​IMG]

    4 pin internal ignition

    [​IMG]

    Low amp cluster tach mod

    [​IMG]

    Ford Visteon or Bosch 4 pole pack wiring and tach mode for high amplified clusters ( MK2 and 1)

    [​IMG]

    Renault/ Peugeot Sagem 4 pole coil pack wiring.

    [​IMG]

    ECU supply and engine I/O connection

    RS Autosprt MS schematic

    [​IMG]

    1.8 T to MS wiring

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    Getting the engine started.
    In the case where the engine controller does not come with a base map, here are some basic tips that you can use to begin the calibration.

    Use these config. settings for:
    Engine constants

    Wheel Trigger

    Conclusion
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2018
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  3. Dave

    Dave Pedantic Old Fart Paid Member

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    Eddie, I have said this to you before, but I'll say it again:

    "I do not necessarily wish to undertake the 'How To' subjects that you post, but I read them in awe!"

    Brilliant stuff again Eddie. Not just a great piece of workmanship, but a superb piece of documentation. The wiring diagrams are perfect, and fully detail all connections in an uber clear manner.:clap:

    We on CGTI are very lucky that you, Brian.G, and some others go to such trouble to enlighten us.[:*:][:*:]

    Praise over! [:$]

    ps. Shame that you have not worked out how to spin photos through 90 deg. clockwise yet!:lol:


     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2011
  4. Admin Guest

    Great work Eddie :thumbup:
     
  5. HidRo Forum Member

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    Really nice work!
    If you feel that there might be any valuable information on my site (http://eight620vt.tk) feel free to add!
     
  6. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    god damnit i wish i had found this when i was doing that loom i wouldn't have had to bombard you/everyone with questions :lol:

    its worth noting that the Renault/ Peugeot Sagem 4 pole coil pack can have pins 3 and 4 either way round, and still work :thumbup:

    oh and re: the rev counter wiring, so you dont need an extra Zener diode between the 2 in4001 diodes and the clocks? all the diagrams ive seen use one of these and peterg60s rev counter doesnt work, so this could be why...
     
  7. Admin Guest

    Mine has the zener diode and works perfectly - did you put it in the correct way round? It needs to be the oposite way round to the diodes. Click pic to enlarge.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2011
  8. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    bugger it, that'll be why. no-one said they needed to be a certain way round :lol:
     
  9. hooblah Forum Member

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    nice one eddie. this will come in really useful in the near future. :thumbup:
     
  10. bens_cab Forum Junkie

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    fantastic eddie the cabby is out on the road again for 6th year with its ms install hopefully i can get it down to you again for some tweaking now it has the ko3s

    What i will say is when i first installed mine if it hadnt been for meeting eddie the car would have just been poodling around not running great lol

    after a few telephone conversations and a visit from eddie the car was mot'd and driven despite a few issues which were ecu related eddie was able to resolve these issues in the ecu's he builds now so my cabby had become some kind of test bed in a way to help the install of other euc's using the 20vt

    to date i have fitted 3 of these ecu's built by eddie for people with very little hassle unlike the hassle i had when i first installed mine so im glad to see ive been of some help in the process
     
  11. bens_cab Forum Junkie

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    if you had asked i could have sent you the rev mod already soldered and ready to go lol:lol::lol:ive done a few now
     
  12. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Cheers for the kind words guys. More content will be added in due time
     
  13. Jeevesraf New Member

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    Awsome Eddie, this thread is just what I needed!
     
  14. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    DIYAutotune Loom update 140911

    With RSA looms hard to source, DIYAutotune is now used to source both ECU kits/components and looms.

    Below is the typical loom explaination and ECU pin out that are used in an ECU that was configured by Toyotecwerke.

    [​IMG]

    As some most 20vT vehicles run wasted spark with a 4 pole coil pack a flylead is added to pin 6 on the MS loom. This is "spark B". So far they look like this.

    [​IMG]

    Any questions please feel free to ask.
     
  15. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    can you get a better quality scan, or confirm what the note says about the CLT and IAT earth, i think it says earth them to the same spot as the megasquirt ecu?

    some questions re: grounding for them. do you recommend that 7-9 and 17-19 each have their own ground wire, or is splicing them to a thicker wire ok as i have seen on some megasquirt d plugs supplied to me.

    Also where is the best place to earth the head or the battery -ve? I've seen conflicting information. I tend to wire them as per oem ABF, all sensors ground together to the head, and ecu wires to the same spot also
     
  16. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    1) All sensors can be grounded on any ecu earth lead.

    2) As this diagram shows, pins 7-9 and 17-19 are common ( as are the pin between) manage the flyleads from these are required.

    3) Hope the conflicting infomation is not in this thread !
    Take the unused wires, connect togther and send out to battery -ve/earth on 2.0-4.0 mm flylead.
     
  17. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    cool thanks. its come from various places, as you know there are around 20million different ms diagrams out there and they all differ slightly :lol:

    reason i asked about the earth is one ms loom i got had them all joined, but the maker of the ecu told the customer that this was an error and he should use separate wires instead and earth them all to the same point [:s]

    which made my life much harder as i had to desolder them all and add a new wire to each pin. now I'm a bit annoyed that I wasted my time :lol:
     
  18. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    They tend to be generated depending on who built the ecu and what extras are fitted.
    When the ECUs are built, I tend to follow the pattern set by the supplier, in this case DIYAutotune and previously Glen's Garage/RSA. This reduces confusion to the fitter.
    This is also one of the reason for this thread.

    Then do as you are told by the ECU maker. It would be nice if ECU builders follow the base ECU guidlines as demonstrated above, but without inspecting the ECU build I could not comment any further.

    When you do not know you have to try. Now go build them the "proper" way :thumbup:.
     
  19. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    cool thanks for all the info :thumbup:
     
  20. prof Forum Addict

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    cracking info as ever. :thumbup:
     

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