Wiring up Idle Control Valve

Discussion in 'K-Jetronic OEM injection' started by Breadfan83, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. Breadfan83 Forum Member

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    Hey guys!
    Hope you can help out here.

    Situation:
    Car won't start. It cranks, but it won't fire up.
    My Idle Control Valve (ICV) is connected with a white and a black/white wire to connection M on the Fuse Box.

    My guess:
    M is for headlights, at least that's what I find all over the internet. Guessing this is correct, since everytime I would turn on my high beam, the ICV clicks.

    So, if someone could tell me where the connector would have to go to instead of M on the Fuse Box, this would be greatly appreciated.


    The car:
    VW mk2 Golf
    Engine:
    1986
    1.8 16v KR
    Electronics:
    CE1

    I have seen pretty much ever schematics out there about this already, but it is never about CE1, or KR, or the combination of these two. Always telling me to connect the ICV to the computer that can only be found on the PL.
     

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  2. Breadfan83 Forum Member

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    Some of the schematics I already found.
    Maybe they can help you better help me, than they helped me.



    1.png 2.png 3.jpg
     
  3. Breadfan83 Forum Member

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  4. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    you need the ISV control unit with associated wiring for this to work, it doesnt plug into M on the fusebox. The ISV controller wiring has 2 plugs one for the 'M' plug you have there and a larger white multi pin plug which has the rest of the isv controller wiring to engine bay. the only diagram you have which is any use to you is the haynes manual scan in your 2nd post in the middle 'wiring diagram for idle speed stabilisation and over-run cut off' which covers most of the wiring to the module for a CE1 fusebox. The red/black wire on the right goes to the coil negative and the black/yellow on the left goes to the idle switch.

    For a complete 16v diagram see the link in my signature and look for 'g2krecuce1.pdf' or 'g2krecuce2.pdf'

    heres a piccy of what you're missing, its found behind the centre console on the MK2 and Corrado KR. Not sure where on a Passat, assume same place
    16visvcontrolunit.jpg
     
  5. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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  6. Breadfan83 Forum Member

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    The VDO 244 unit, yes, I found some info on that one as well.
    Thing is though, the car ran fine until recently. I installed the horn, and had to remove a bushing on the steering collumn. In the process, I broke a ground wire for warm-up regulator. After re-attaching that one, the car ran again. I put it all back together, since the dash was still off from looking for the problem, and after it had been put together, it again didn't run.

    The ISV clicks when turning on the high beams, so I guess we now know why.
    We don't know why it won't run all of a sudden anymore though...

    I will see if I haven't already checked your diagrams, I am pretty sure I saw your comment on a similar topic already where you said you already posted those diagrams and got no response, haha.
     
  7. Breadfan83 Forum Member

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    1. Sparkplugs and wires are new. I just received a new rotor, and the cap was only a few weeks old, and the car never drove, just ran for a few minutes a week. Checked all the wiring so far with a multimeter, and seems fine as well.

    2. I have a black/white and a full white wire on the ISV, missing the VDO 244 control unit though. However, we drove the car and had it running on several occasions without this as well. I already cleaned the ISV two or three weeks ago. It ran before and after doing this. Is there a way to just short the ISV, and have it running on a switch or something temporarily, just to check?

    3. All vacuum lines are new, and it ran before and after installing them. However, I am not really certain everything is hooked up perfectly, so if there is anyone that could show me a proper schematics of what goes where on a euro KR from 86, that'd be cool. However, like I said, it ran fine with how it was / is.

    4. This I am doing at the moment, just checking everything in general, but the info in your post is awesome! Gives me a clue of what in particular to look out for. So massive thanks for that!

    5. Without the VDO 244 unit, this valve does nothing either I believe? So, job now is to install this unit and check it all again. Should still have one somewhere, so will try and make some time to dig it out this weekend.

    6. Will check this. Easier now with all the wiring taken out, so will check if the labels I put on are correct, and if not, correct them.

    7. Checked the coldstart injector / 5th injector, and it is spraying just fine. Still have a bottle of gas from testing it standing on the workbench. :p

    8. Throttle housing has been apart completely, cleaned and polished. I think it is cleaner and smoother than when it came from the factory. No problems there.

    9. Seals, yeah. Gonna check those when the car runs again, but I think they are no longer 100%. But should still be good. Eitherway, they are on the list to be replaced from now on.

    10. Metering head, I can test without the wiring in? Or should it be wired up and key in ignition? Don't think there's an issue there, but never hurts to check.

    11. New injectors also on the list of parts to be replaced.

    12. No hot start issues, haha, since the car won't even start to get hot.

    13. Gonna check the flap, but guess there's nothing wrong there. Eitherway, good to know and test.

    14. Timing belt is new, and timing is correct. It ran before and after changing this.

    -------

    With setting the Idle Screw, you mean the screw on the throttle body?

    Great tips on that CO screw!

    Lastly: yes, the fuelpump works fine.

    Thanks for this post / link man!
     
  8. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    2. Just leave isv alone for now, it needs a pulsed signal from the controller to vary the amount of air which can pass through it. many 16v swaps run without the ISV at all and just raise the base idle to help it when cold.

    3. doesnt matter a great deal, but factory 1 nipple on the brake servo hose goes to the ecu. the other nipple runs over to the airbox area, with a T piece to split to the over-run cut-off valve and the cold throttle enrichment valve. There is sometimes an extra T piece to split off to the air sensor in the inlet/airbox for the warm air flap but as this doesn't really affect the engine I wouldn't bother hooking it up. Mines been off since 2005 for all 4 engines I've installed in mine :lol:
    heres an awesome MS paint diagram, phear the skillz
    g2krvacuumdiagram-professionaledition.png

    5. as per 2, the over-run valve wont be doing anything right now but if its fallen off the air pipework it will give you a massive air leak. there are no pipe clips holding it in place so its a good idea to install some if the hoses are getting a bit worn

    10. For this test the fuel pump needs to be running, the way I do it is first pull the black wires off the coil to stop any chance of a spark then fit a 17, 18 or 100 relay into the fuel relay socket then the pump will run with ignition on for testing. you can jump the 2 large terminals on relay socket with a loop of wire, if you make an extra long one you can run it to engine bay with a switch.

    yes idle screw is the one on the front of the throttle, by now the seal will probably be worn and could do with a replacement. doesn't sound like the cause of your issues though since usually this means your idle is higher than it should be and in extreme cases it'll wind itself out over time.

    While you're looking it over make sure you have a spark, if you listen out for the fuel pump it should prime with ignition but also it should run while you're cranking it over. if it does this means the ecu is at least seeing some kind of output from the distributor. if nothing then start your checks there, peel rubber boot off and check pins underneath, look inside dizzy for obvious damage to hall sensor etc. If you have a spare ignition module thats worth a try, its the 7 pin thing screwed on top of the ecu bracket, same unit is used on all mk2 with electronic ignition so easy to find spares
     
  9. Breadfan83 Forum Member

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    Gonna walk through all the things first thing this new week. Found the VDO244 with all the wiring and plugs, knew I still had it somewhere, just had to find it and isolate the wiringloom from all the rest and tape it back up.

    The ignition module has been replaced by three others already, haha. No difference, but good to check just to make sure. Same goes for the ECO. Also been swapped, without any success.
     

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  10. Breadfan83 Forum Member

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    Fizzed it a little to apply for my situation. :p

    schematics fizzed.jpg
     
  11. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    there we go, the black wire from the VDO module is just an ignition live so you can snip that off and pop it to G spade 1 or 3 instead if you dont want to mess with your dash harness. Does look like you got the whole thing carefully removed from the donor though so you can probably swap it over for a factory install with a little more effort :)

    I see your mspaint skills rival my own :lol:
     
  12. Breadfan83 Forum Member

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    I wasn't sure anymore, but when I saw the loom I took this part out of, I remembered:

    The loom that served as a donor for this part, was the original loom that came with the car / engine. Reason why I didn't put it, was because I was told the stuff that's in the VDO244 unit, is also inside the Digifiz, so the seperate unit wasn't needed anymore. Knowing now what the VDO244 unit does, I find it highly unlikely these functions are built in to the cluster though. Had I known this before, I could've saved myself a lot of trouble. :p
     
  13. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    yeah I really dont know what the guy was thinking when he said that :lol:
     
  14. Breadfan83 Forum Member

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    It's alive!

    It almost went down in a huge firey ball of automotive disaster, but it is alive.
    Don't think I heard the idle valve buzz the way it does now, but also don't think I've ever seen the warm up regulator just spray fuel all over the place like it is doing now. I am SOOO fucking glad I cleaned the entire engine and dried it the way I did when it was pretty much in parts, so that I now clearly see it is no longer clean, nor dry, and went looking for the culprit.

    What I've done, so I can not really pinpoint what the actual problem was, but pretty much all you said and then some.
    I put the VDO244 console in, including all the wiring, completely OEM. Then I had the yellow, the white, the red AND the blue plug out the fuse box and checked every single of their wires, one by one, and soldered a shit-ton of them.

    I replaced pretty much all the sensors, as far as they were delivered anyways. The ones that still need to arrive will be replaced as well. Then did an oil-change (I know, without a running engine, the oil is cold, but I just put cheap stuff, and still need to do a filter AND oil-change later with proper stuff). Changed the spark-wires, and put another coil. Replaced the distributor cap and the rotor, replaced the ignition module, cleaned the idle control valve, and and and.... the list goes on and on, and really lost track of what I all did to it, but didn't want to end a thread by saying "it runs, thanks, close thread please, bye!".

    It would not have worked without your massive Microsoft Paint skillzzz, Jonny, so thanks for that. And I guess the other stuff you said helped a little too. ;)
     
  15. Breadfan83 Forum Member

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    The bolt on the fuel-line was lose.... guess it is not supposed to be lose.... weird. 0.o
     
  16. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    Great news :)

    Lucky you caught that as you say, could have gone very badly!
     

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