The problem you describe is engine management mapping related not cam spec. With a fully mappable ecu the issue is'nt there at all.
Got a Duratec 2 litre in bits at work out of 2001 Mondeo (don't ask why) compared to Zetec, valves and ports are massive, all the valve train is light weight, valves must be titanium they're sooo light. Can see why the kit car and elise boys ar getting into this motor, oh, under the many heat sheilds there's a tubular manifold as well Edited by: G_V_K
that's good as there are loads of fords about hence lots of duratecs in scrappies in a couple of years I'm working on a 20v NA engine aiming for 200bhp ish, i'll let you know if we ever get there
Was reading "Fast Ford" recently (note this wasn't a usual occurence, I was waiting in my local ProTyre for a puncture to be repaired) and saw a good article on the Duratec. They were saying that they make 170HP just with a swap to Webbers and 200BHP on throttle bodies with no internal mods at all, standard cams the lot. My mate is planning to put one into his kit car, the advantage with the duratec being that the injector mounts directly into the head so he's going to keep them with gutted out old webbers for a cheap throttle body system. Joe
Interesting chinwag today, a punter of a VAG specialist is after big power out of a 2.016v for a hillclimb car, the aim is 250+bhp. Pretty large budget to play with- the head alone has a very decent budget (not right for me to say on here) so big valves & super dooper porting job etc etc. Its an odd choice for getting huge power out of what with VX lumps for hillclimbers capable of 300+bhp with similar work, but anyway im dead interested in knowing about pushing the old KR based lump as far as it will go & interested in the specs & when I know more I'll post it up.
That's getting into the realms of the kit car engines that Rob's posted about with 10hr lifespans. Be interested to see the outcome of it though..
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/History_files/History_DuratecTuning.h tm I aplogise, the valves are stainless not titanium as I thought - 35mm inlets are pretty big tho..
There is going to be a resurgance in interest in the 16V I think, especially in the hillclimb arena. Lots of old F3 cars do hillclimbing (would love one myself) and many of them seem to be fitted with 'Brabham VW's'. These are 2L 8V's and back in the 80's they were very popular and successful. Many have got mechanical FI systems on them and make 180-200hp - highly developed engines that are all now getting a bit long in the tooth. Anyhow, the F3 cars that hillclimb are in the <2L racing car class against other single seaters, usually with bike engines. They ideeally need more like 250hp to be competitive. Well....it wouldn't take that much messing about to fit a 2L 16V in the space a 8V occupies - bellhousing and sump will bolt straight up which would be the biggest issue. Main concern from he folks I have spoken to is that the hewland gearbox may not take it. Expect to see a few of these in next couple yrs - shame there is next to no expertise in the UK to build high spec valvers. Is the car you speak about a saloon or single seater ? 250hp is very possible with this engine, 300hp....no chance IMO, not in a privateer car. Cheers Rob Edited by: RobT
I was interested when I found what else you had to do to accomodate titanium valves into a motor.. You certainyl dont just bung em in... and the engine wont be fit and forget afterwards either.. Berilium Copper seats?? would you believe
Agree with Rob. The other thing with hillclimbing is that peak bhp isn't the key, you need a gutsy motor because of slow tight corners. Plus the old valver is a load lighter and smaller than an XE and can be easily packaged. As Rob says, alot is down to development. You can find 20-30bhp messing about with induction and exhaust lengths etc, and no one over here has done much with the VW engine. If you check out some of the German websites, there are regularly good engines for sale. KWL have one at the moment, 235bhp for 11000 Euros, which is pretty reasonable for a proper engine outright. Out of interest, has anyone seen what the new 16v FSI type head is like?
Id be surprised if you could genuinly find 20-30bhp from pressure wave tuning on the inlet and exhaust, depends on the engine though. You never gain something without loosing something usually with PW tuning either. Hillclimb engines are nice ones to build, they need to be super hard and pick up well from low down. How much potential is there for boring the 16v engine ? Are different blocks thicker?
You can bore the 2L engine to take a 83.5mm piston but in doing this break the 2000cc barrier = new class if you are racing and honest. Over 2L class is not where you want to be with a fwd car. Most 2L blocks have similar meat in them from what I have seen, different deck heights though = different rod lengths (and I'm not going to get into the rod ratio discussion) Rob
rod ratio on mine will be all wrong, but it's going to be an intetresting experiment to see what can be done with just a parts bin approach
Interesting thread this. I'm a bit mystified by some of the comments about twin carbs though. If you can't extract more power from twin carbs compared with the std injection system then something is very wrong. Fuel economy is not a major issue if the carbs are properly set up. I'm managing 25mpg ish on a tuned 2.0 8v engine that makes a non inflated 160BHP.
There's a few people running twin weber carbs on their 16v Golfs, but i'm yet to see any decent power from one. Always waiting to be proven wrong of course
Valvers on Carbs never seem to produce "sit up & take notice" BHP figures IMO & many only produce what has been proved capable on K-Jet....(Solid 180BHP) Cant really see the attraction in using old technology for a seemingly minimal gain..with all the cons that go with it....poor consumption/regular tune-ups etc etc Although pricey, the ITB route seems so much more sensible to me, with proven power, & more importantly, torque gains. The system is fully mappable to a fuel of your choice & wont go out of tune every 10 minutes!!
