MK1 Cabrio build 2L cross flow + 45 carbs

Discussion in '8-valve' started by jrgibb, Jan 26, 2014.

  1. jrgibb

    jrgibb Forum Member

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    Hi all,

    This is my build thread, firstly I have to thank all those that have contributed to the 2L conversion thread here (See the Technical, Engines, 8V section of the forum) which got me started on this and then to Danster and Chris Eyre for their help, time and patience in developing this conversion to a cross flow with carbs. Finally to Mr Hillclimber for his regular help, patience and encouragement.

    I've got a thread running on JMRacing and here, I've not been able to keep up all so will update this thread only and when finished write everything up and post on both. Thanks to everyone on all thee forums that have helped so far. If anyone want to take a look at the other thread it's here;

    http://jasonmoyleracin-litre-cross-flow-(45's)/

    I should make it clear that all of the following is written by a relative novice so please forgive any strange terminology, I know what I mean ;)

    Where possible I will try to split things up into the basic facts about the engine -v- the other additional changes I've decided to make on the basis of "it would be silly not to" whilst the engine is out and other changes I've decided to make which are not really part of the engine build. I've included these changes anyway as it's part of by build not yours ;)

    So where possible I will separate things into;

    A - The carbs and cross flow build
    B - Options for the cross flow build
    C - Others options

    So the start - My car is an 88 Golf Cabriolet GTI after the clutch went and there was "mayo" in the oil filler cap (emulsified oil - water and oil mixed never a good thing!!) which indicated possible head gasket. So faced with these problems I decided if there's to be a lot of work done I'd look at the 2L conversion.

    TIP - If you see mayo in the oil check the oil cooler, just above the oil filter mine had gone allowing water into the system (quite common I understand) so not the head gasket, an easy fix compared to a head gasket change!!!

    A - The carbs and cross flow build

    I got an AGG block (GOLF MK 3 GTI 2.0 8V 1995-1999, PASSAT 1995-1996, VENTO 1995-1997) for the conversion from Stevens (VW Breakers | Genuine Used VW Spares & Parts).

    Easier if you buy a block / engine for this project with all the ancillaries!! - see page 3 re the alternator!

    However I decided I'd like to go down the route of twin carbs. This is not in pursuit of heaps of power but more the desire for simplicity, being in my 50th years I guess I prefer my fuel air mixture to be prepared, mixed and delivered mechanically and without the aid of electronics, I'm not seeking to create an engine that will be king but maybe a prince amongst men ;) Anyway you'll go into any such conversion for your own reasons - Good luck!

    You can fit carbs with the existing inlet so this is the first decision and one that has a cost attached, the cheapest option is to stick with what you've got.

    I decided on seeing if a cross flow was possible as the clearance for say twin 45 at back of the engine is tight and the carbs will be drawing air very close to the bulkhead - Technically I don't know if that makes any difference however hot air with no flow to the trumpets didn't seem good to me. If someone wants to to have the debate re cold ram air induction please go ahead, however I'm working on the principle of cold air induction at the front of the engine = good.

    The other option here is to go throttle bodies, someone else can tell you about that, just thought I'd mention it.

    I'm not going to go into detail regarding the changes you need to make for the 2L conversion as it's all covered in the thread below other than where I may have decided to got down a different route.

    http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?90658-2L-8v-conversion-guide

    So for the cross flow, you'll need;

    AKL head (06B 103 373A) or OBD1 ABA heads imported from the US I believe there may be others, the AKL is from the MK4 1.6 8V. AKL head will require the front left and front right cylinder head bolt holes opened up to 12mm to allow the M11 head bolts to fit

    Note - Mr Hillclimber tells me the AKL is a low flow head, blending the ports wasn't sufficient it was necessary increase the overall port size and reshape the bowls.

    Before

    [​IMG]

    After

    [​IMG]

    New inlet manifold, JMR and possibly Roland in South Africa

    Replace fuel pump with a facet or similar electric unit - check what fuel arrangement you have in your car. Mine had the pump, accumulator and filter just in front of the drivers side rear wheel. The original pump is in a foam housing, with some minor cutting you can get a facet pump in there as a direct replacement. You do need to bin the filter, accumulator. Its just fuel tank, facet, (new filter between tank and pump) new line back to the original metal line back to the engine bay, new line, another filter, regulator, carbs. Unless you have a return on yr carbs bin the old return and cap off the line into the tank.

    Carburettors of choice I've got twin 45 Dellortos

    Distributor - See the section below in page 2 you'll need to keep to original DX dizzy but put the gear off a 2L dizzy on it and use an adapter ring.

    You're going to need to replace the exhaust manifold as the 2L block is taller and this extra height changes the angle of the downpipes, I'm presently looking at the Ashley 4-1 but it will need some rework

    Note - If you're not going to change the pulley then the AKL being an 06X type engine uses a different style cambelt and belt offset so you can remove the AKL cam pulley, belt tensioner and cam phase sensor, and use the pulley and tensioner form one of your counterflow heads. The belt tensioner stud may need swapped over depending on tensioner type.

    Note / Tip - If you're just doing an engine only build and leaving the loom in place wait until you've re installed the new engine it'll become apparent which connectors are no longer needed as the injection unit etc will be gone! Get the new engine running than systematically remove the old wiring.

    B - Options for the cross flow build

    This one is highly recommended - With this build you will be changing the compression ratio or more specifically you have the option to optimise the compression ratio to create an engine with a decent power curve. However I DONT have the knowledge however got some help with this, Mr Hillclimber at JM Racing has been my guide and mentor :-) the following work was carried out;

    Re seat the valves to increase the combustion chamber volume*
    Skimmed off the "d" section on the top of the standard piston so the crowns are flat*
    Then measure the exact volume of the combustion chamber in the head (using vasoline, a burette and some perspex - see pics below)
    Measure the exact volume of the piston crown recess (same process as above)
    Average out the TDC depth from the top of the block for the pistons use the rock method
    Deck the block based on these calculations**

    With this information an expert will be able to calculate what to remove from the block.

    * Gosnays in Romford, Essex did the machine work for me including increasing the size of the two bolt holes in the head.

    ** Mr Hillclimber did the math, had 32 thou taken off the block

    Other things to consider, I'm going to do all of these;

    Fast road cam & vernier pulley - I'm having a Newman 272 fitted
    Port the head - This is being done by JM Racing
    Remove the expansion tank - Done
    Remove the oil cooler take up and fit an oil rad - Don't leave the water cooler on if you're fitting a Mocal cut the pinion down and just have the Mocal take up.
    Replace the radiator with an early MK1 top fill rad - I've decided to stick with an early MK1 top fill and move it as far over to the right as I can to get better airflow to the carbs. There's lots of replacement options out there. BMW E30, Honda Civic, Vauxhall Corsa.
    Keep the block breather, don't blank it off use an oil catcher and let the head and block breath This is where I differ from the 2L conversion thread.

    I'm adding these as B option items as, IMHO whilst the engine is out it's worth considering, however I appreciate it's all about , ;

    Poly bush the steering rack, wishbones & ARB

    C - Others options

    All of the following are things I've decided to do with my build which are not specifically relate to the engine. Some / many are pure indulgence and driven by my desire for a nice clean looking engine bay, my choice so don't judge, it's going to make me happy albeit poorer ;)

    Move the battery and washer bottle to the boot, cut out the battery tray and all the fittings etc for the expansion tanks etc
    Rewire the ignition circuit
    Remove the servo and brake linkage (what a monstrosity that is)
    Fit a brake bias box (from HRCP) with Wilwood master cylinders (260-6087 0.625 for front 260-6088 0.700 for the rear) in the car.
    Remove front and rear suspension, clean and paint, poly bushes
    New wishbones and track rod ends
    Eibach front and rear ARB
    Gaz coilovers
    Lower front brace (almost put this in B options, the MK1 needs the lower brace)
    Replace brake lines
    Goodridge braided hoses
    Remove scuttle tray
    Clean and respray engine bay

    I'll be amending and correcting this as I go and posting below some of the specific problems I've found along the way - Hope this helps and again thanks to all that have helped me so far!!

    Jason
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2015
  2. mr hillclimber Club GTI Supporter and Sponsor

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    Nothing wrong with carbs....good call....simple and effective.

    You have the basics sussed, and no doubt your aware you'll need a throttle linkage to suit the carbs and a fuel pressure reg. The potential heat issue isn't an issue...I run a few customers race cars plus my own with rear facing induction and they run fine. The manifold needs port matching to the head and opening up subject to the final chosen spec.

    The crossflow head works well...there are pros and cons tho. Airflow is much improved and the std head flows better as std. Issues that need solving tho are the oil way alignment you mention...an easy weld up & re shape job, and the radiatior will need lowering out of the air stream into the carbs.

    A normal tubular exhaust manifold also fits the crossflow head.

    A 2ltr crossflow on Webers or Dellortos will make an easy 160hp in very tame spec...with much more possible.

    Don't discount the old type head tho...great results are also possible.
     
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  3. jrgibb

    jrgibb Forum Member

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    Mr H, many thanks! When you say the old type head do you mean the original head off the donor engine (facing the bulkhead)???
     
  4. mr hillclimber Club GTI Supporter and Sponsor

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    Yes indeed....over 200hp is possible in hillclimb/race tune with rear facing induction...it depends on what challenge you fancy really...a nice 160-165hp is possible in road trim with the right parts either way on carbs as a guide.
     
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  5. jrgibb

    jrgibb Forum Member

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    Thanks, I'm going cross flow, just picked up head so will change this original post to focus on this as the build.
     
  6. jrgibb

    jrgibb Forum Member

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    You have to start somewhere, so why not at the beginning, out with the old . . .

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Looking forward to seeing your developments :thumbup:
     
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  8. Jon Olds Forum Junkie

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    Long live the DCOE!
    Jon
     
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  9. danster Forum Addict

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    There is no requirement to weld and re-shape the oil drain / crankcase to head vent located in the front of the head between cylinders 1 & 2 when fitting a crossflow head to a 2.0 tall block such as the AGG or 2E.
    Those engine blocks have the extra material in that location to mate with the crossflow head. That said there are certain older blocks that would require that work.

    However, before fitting an AKL head to a 2.0 tall block the head will require the front left and front right cylinder head bolt holes opened up to 12mm to allow the M11 head bolts to fit.
    This is because the AKL code 1.6 06X type engines utilise M10 head bolts, and these outer two cylinder head bolt holes are partially machined smaller so they are a close fit to the head bolt and thus align the head on the block.

    If you use a head from an AFT code 1.6 EA827 type engine then this modification would not be required as they utilise M11 head bolts as standard.

    The AKL being an 06X type engine uses a different style cambelt and belt offset so you can remove the AKL cam pulley, belt tensioner and cam phase sensor, and use the pulley and tensioner form one of your counterflow heads. The belt tensioner stud may need swapped over depending on tensioner type.

    Headgasket wise you can use part number 037 103 383 N

    That gasket is the correct shape and specifically designed to fit a crossflow head on to a suitable 2.0 EA827 block, it only requires the two gasket locating dowel pins in the block to be checked for size to match the gasket for correct positioning.
    The coolant passage design of the crossflow headgasket varies from the counterflow style. Presumably to manage even coolant flow around the head. This is because the crossflow head only has a single water outlet at the end of the head, where as the counterflow head has two coolant outlets with the main one located between cylinders 3 & 4.

    There are several inlet manifolds options for sidedraft carbs to crossflow head. You could get in touch with mr hillclimber on here as I recall he may have manufactured some.
    If he does not, just be careful what you source elsewhere as some manifolds are designed for the engine being mounted in a vertical arrangement in different vehicle platforms, and that particular type will make the carbs sit at an incorrect angle on a FWD Golf with a conventionally canted engine.
     
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  10. jrgibb

    jrgibb Forum Member

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    Brilliant Danster, thank you, I'll summarise this and add it to my original post!!

    Jason
     
  11. mr hillclimber Club GTI Supporter and Sponsor

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    Carb jetting is easy once the full spec is settled on and the correct choke size used...piece of cake to sort from there.
     
  12. GT racer New Member

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    If using a short block the dizzy cap will foul against the sidedraft/throttle body intake manifold. Which will prevent you from adjusting the timing. An ABF dizzy cap can be made to fit on the distributor. Some people also used a Renault Clio dizzy.... For my cross flow conversion I have a ABF dizzy that I will use as I am running a short block 2L. Not sure if it will be a issue on a tall block 2E block?
     
  13. Jon Olds Forum Junkie

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    Following this with interest, keep in coming!
    Std cam or something a bit lumpier?
    Jon
     
  14. jrgibb

    jrgibb Forum Member

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    GT this is a tall block AGG however thanks for the info, will include this in the details in the original post.

    Jon, it's going to be a fast road cam, sourced from Mr Hillclimber who's been helping me with the head rework. With his guidance the head is with a local engineer at the moment (dropped off today) for the valves and head seats to be done, machining the crowns to take off the small raised sections. I'll be doing some light blending and work on the ports, then measure the head cc and pistons new tdc position and then have the head / block skimmed.

    Also getting the two 11mm holes resized, the firm in question Gosnay's in Romford very impressed so far, as I walked in with the head the guy there said "ahh a Golf" that felt like a good start! Am probably going to get some of the parts from them (gasket, rings etc).
     
  15. drunkenalan Paid Member Paid Member

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    ill be watching this one with interest!!

    nice to see you again Dan
     
  16. jrgibb

    jrgibb Forum Member

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    Late night musing . . .

    Want to keep the engine as tidy as possible and reduce the plumbing, has anyone run with a top fill rad to remove the expansion tank?? Clearly they'll be a reduction in coolant in the system = more heat. More efficient rad, twin fans??? Thinking of running with an oil rad as well (with a stat), how efficient are they in stationary traffic????

    Before [​IMG] After [​IMG]

    Oh and I want to source a replacement rocker cover for the AKL head, the original one is a monstrosity;

    [​IMG]

    WANT ONE OF THESE!!!!!

    [​IMG]

    Saturday 15th Feb - last of the bits and pieces on the old engine disconnected - Just bonnet off and the mounts and it's old engine out next weekend!! Head back mid week - loads to do . . . .
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
  17. jrgibb

    jrgibb Forum Member

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    Hi,

    Going to start to systematically bin some of the stuff in the engine bay, as the ignition is going to be simple with the carbs I'm guessing that all of this can go (apart from the coil and dizzy), would appreciate some assistance / guidance as I'm no sparky!

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Paul V New Member

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    How are you getting on with this ?? I am doing a similar thing to my sons caddy pickup but running it on Jenvey ITB and omex. I have had a chat with Hilclimber about doing the head sometime ago but this is a long term project mainly as i have another 10 projects running alongside it lol

    I am thinking like you and wanting a top fill rad, did you get any further with this ? also can you post a photo up of your water outlet on the RH side of your head ? all i have is a hole and no housing to attach a pipe to.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. jrgibb

    jrgibb Forum Member

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    Hi Paul,

    I'm posting more on the JMR forum as Jason has been helping me with this. I'm still preparing the head / block to get the CR right. Re the head I think mine is the same, not got that far yet, there's a 101 things to work through :-) Re the top fill rad I'm going down this route at the moment if only to get rid of more of the clutter in the engine, the loss of coolant volume shouldn't be an issue - there's also some discussion on the JMR forum re waterless coolant . . .

    Anyway looks like you're ahead of me, I'm still preping the engine bay and on the engine build. Take a look at the Tim engine build in Customer Cars there's some good stuff there as well. What head is that?
     
  20. GT racer New Member

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    For my crossflow conversion I bought a Honda Civic vtec radiator. It will sit in front of the gearbox. There is a bit of a height problem but it is the best off the shelf solution I could find. For the height problem the guys already running such a setup slant the radiator backwards at the top - o yes it also is a top fill. As I am shaving the engine bay for the ultimate clean look I am going to lower the radiator into the front cross member. And then re in forcing the front engine mount again in one or another way. Still need to get a plan. I have thought of doing something like the Black Forest industries engine mount support that bolts to the chassis legs.

    Others have used a Vauxhall diesel Corsa radiator, it is the same length as the original but it sits lower than the original. Giving air to the carbs....

    As my golf was originally a 1.6 carb my ignition system stays as is - except I need to splice all the wiring as I am tucking the wiring as part of the shaved bay exercise.... Which is taking a bit long..... I need to get cracking at it :-)
     

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