8 valve engines - OEM, tuned + race outputs

Discussion in '8-valve' started by A.N. Other, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. mr hillclimber Club GTI Supporter and Sponsor

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    Nope...a mistake in my quick calculation over the phone based on the figures tony gave me off the top of his head...he didn't have the graph to hand.

    We were talking about peak torque rpm not torque at peak power. It does make a fair bit more than 166ibft at 5k...it was showing 155ibft at the wheels at 5k...so into the 170's.

    Whatever it does make Tony is cleaning up in his native championship...beating 260hp 205 16v's and 280hp 16v rwd hybrid rally cars...and a few kit cars along the way. .So it's holding it's own with 8v's less.

    I'll let ya'all know how good it is after next weekends hillclimb down here with a rusty old nut behind the wheel! ;)
     
  2. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    The 217 bhp number appears to be dyno derived from the "wheel" information as seen in in post 54
    @169lbft@6750 it would suggest the clutch torque would be more than 175lbft, given the shape of the wheel torque curve.
    The number for torque, "166" hand written, does not correlate with a "peak" wheel torque as this does occur at 5750rpm (155wlbft).
    Reported numbers in this plot cannot be taken as an absoulte but I do believe and have evidence the plot shapes and activity per rpm breakpoints are good.
    With the rev range and torque activity demonstrated in the above plots I could easily say that is strong pulling 8v engine.
     
  3. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Request from elsewhere:

    Additional information to post 2, page 1. Based on data extracted from UK dealer microfiche, it is fairly definitive that the EN code commenced in Aug 1980. Clearly this is marked as a Japanese engine on the microfiche ('J'). Other 1.7s may have preceded it but the data already in post 2 currently points to circa 1980 earliest.
     
  4. Capt.Dreadz New Member

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    @ Chris,
    I think the info for ABT is wrong. They used a DZ block on the 1800E.
    2011-12-04_08-55-11_996.jpg

    Head..
    IMG_0103.jpg

    In an ABT mk2
    IMG_0124-1.jpg

    Not mine. Stubbled upon this thread searching for more info. The car is in the states.
     
  5. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Interesting stuff, it's probably a later conversion, as the entry in page 1 refers to the 1700 crank, which will have 46mm big ends, not the later 47.8mm. I will need to check back where I pulled that information from, but the crank detail if correct would force it to be pre-DX.

    Did you mean to write DZ or EV? The US car (Euro import) was on the forum the other week, with an EV sticker inside from recollection :thumbup:
     
  6. chopperoli Forum Member

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    Some snaps of the GTi Engineering RLR1800+ early 1.6 to 1.8 conversion innards, using the 1.7 crank and forged pistons (reputedly Cosworth items)
    Note deep valve pockets (designed for use with the 1.6 Heron head) and 136mm rods
    DSC01139.jpg DSC01130.jpg
     
  7. chopperoli Forum Member

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    Should add that its 10:1 compression ratio (std 9.5:1 for EG block) and has the deep combustion chamber, unlike some aftermarket pistons for that engine
     
  8. Capt.Dreadz New Member

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    The p/n on the block (orig. engine that came with the car) says it's a DZ (unless i'm the one thats wrong). I to assumed it to be an EV from the info on page 1. The year of the GTI fits with the timeline of the ABT 1800E. The car now has an ABA tallblock but the owner still has the orig. block. I'm waiting on more pictures. I'll post them ASAP. :)
     
  9. Capt.Dreadz New Member

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    US MK4 came with AEG, AVH, AZG, BEV used in the Jetta, Passat, Golf, New Beetle, Audi from 1999-2003 Models


    This should help you fill in a few blanks.
    33636911.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2013
  10. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    The cast block part number doesn't force it to be one engine code over another - they're stamped later:

    http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220746

    So for eg it can be seen that 026 103 021 has been sighted on DX and DZ blocks :thumbup:


    Here you go - an EV, regular Euro spec:

    http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=244505
     
  11. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Thanks, rows now added to post 5 on page 1 :thumbup: Are you able to confirm capacities and block types?

    Cheers for the other earlied engine info too, updating now [:*:]
     
  12. Capt.Dreadz New Member

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    All are 2.0L Just a variations of the older ABA. Seemed like every year they improved upon it & gave it a new code. Abit like the 02S trannys compared to the 02j....which replaced the 02a. I will get you detailed specs. I have piles of sale brochures from my old dealer days. :thumbup:


    I'm still looking for info on this ABT GTI. It's definitely an import. 84 model (build date says 83) but registered as an 85 due to us not getting them in 84. here's the p/n...
    2012-01-16_18-42-10_938.jpg
     
  13. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Great, adding capacities, bore & stroke now :thumbup:

    Nice one, cheers :thumbup:


    Yes, 026 103 373 F visible in this thread in several places, 4th column:

    http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220746

    Very early spec EV (if that is the original head), and on the face of it, DX which is the Mk1 GTI in Europe. However, did the Mk2 GTI have two tabs on the left hand edge of the head, one for alternator, one for something else?
     
  14. Capt.Dreadz New Member

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    I'll let you know. I'm waiting for more pics. I'm wondering if this engine came before the one you have listed. It's definitely ABT. The previous owner said the head has port & valve work. I think it's a good score for the new owner. :) Probably the oldest mk2 in the states. I wonder how long has it been here.
     
  15. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Ah, the ABT connection. Potentially an early Mk2 received an engine conversion from the stocks, from the Mk1 era. That would give us an engine block which doesn't belong to the car, and is nothing to do with the sticker in the boot.

    Might be worth moving this side of the convo to the Mk2 thread, as this thread is OEM + tuning of?
     
  16. R.b!n_16v Forum Member

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    got an engine code 8v: FR in a mk2 solid lifter head. Its got an oil cooler etc. What car is it coming out originaly i think mk1. Any info of it?
     
  17. danster Forum Addict

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    Off the top of my head it is a 1588c (79.5mm bore x 80mm stroke) carb engine that was fitted to early Scirocco mk2s and possibly others like Mk1 Jetta of that era.
    The engines are different from the later 1595cc engines as they do not have the extra front oil drain from the head between cylinders 1 & 2.
    Head will be mechanical tappet / shim type. Various other internal dimensional differences as well like smaller big-end diameter journals.

    Yadda yadda, anything else just ask as I have a manual here for one (and probably and engine too [:$])
     
  18. R.b!n_16v Forum Member

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    Hahaha thanks danster:thumbup:
     
  19. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    An 8v power outputs topic, from daved's epic "Mk2 8V VWMS Grp A - Detailed Information Please" 20 pager (just read the lot, knackered now!).

    The relevant quotes:


    So, is it realistic to say a Group A specification 1.8 EV was generating 180 PS (177.48 bhp) - 193PS (190.3 bhp), bearing in mind the data in post 8 earlier in this thread shows a maximum of 170bhp (from data scraped together to date, not necessarily definitive)?

    191 - 200bhp was being quoted for the 16vs, here.

    Discuss!
     
  20. mr hillclimber Club GTI Supporter and Sponsor

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    I would say Chris little chance really.

    K-jet would run like a total dog on the cam needed for that. Admittedly idle and low speed running wont have been a priority, but some mid range grunt out of corners for a rally engine would be a basic requirement.

    Consider F3 engines. .yes on restrictors but making around 170hp from 2ltrs on big lift/duration cams.

    Look at the slick 50 boys...around 160 hp with std cast manifolds...they'll make a bit more on a proper manifold and some more head work but not 30hp

    Vw are are also quoting 200hp from plenum 16v's...do-able. .but there would be a bigger gap back to the 8v than 7hp.

    My own 1800's make that kind of power on open induction & 318 degree cams...even if I just bolted a plenum back on I'd certainly loose power...let alone knocking the cam duration back.

    Id imagine the ad department making up the sign board that day got their wires crossed...or Id like to see it on a UK dyno.
     

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