Well i bought will's old head( you all know the setup, schrick everything and 'shedtech' portingand itb setup, and ive got a reasonable bottom end to go with it(what i reckon will was lacking to make big power). 1900 dx block(83.01 bore), G60 crank, flatplaned/knife edged and balanced with flywheel flywheel at about 7.5lbs pauter x beam lightweight rods custom arias pistons, with 11.4:1 compression, with hard anodized skirts and teflon crowns. Arp head, main and rod bolts schrick sump 2.0 16v oil pump setup and im shaft(still being sorted) and i should be getting hotgolf to put something 020 flavoured with a touch of quaiffe together. I'm aiming for 200 at the fly, and have steve grinnall doing the dta. I've also got another trick up my sleeve that should release another couple of bhp. Variablecam timing, whoops i've said too much. The last thing i'll say about 8v's, they are virtually pointless, as others have said i could have had a 20vt installed for me for a lot less, i could have built a very solid abf making much more power for a lot less, and the 8v's major strong point is its torque, which ive virtually eliminated because of my bottom end diet. If you want power go elsewhere, if you want to be different and are prepared to put some pretty serious money into it then give it a whirl. Also, to get this kind of power my engine is about as impractical as engines get, and i'm now thinking of titanium cranks and dry sump setups to release the final few bhp, na 8v power is the most expensive. By a long way. Its like going out and building a golf, but finding the rustiest, most abused, stress fractured shell out there. You're just making your life very difficult, but nobody else does it! Edited by: jimmy8v
Well the spec would suggest more than 170BHP...cant see 200BHP from only 1900cc as opposed to 170BHP from a 2L though...even though it has a few tricks Would be interested in what results you get, espcially as Steve Greenald? is mapping it & is supposed to be pretty handy on DTA...
It's an aim, if i am for that i might fall a little short. If i aim for less i'll almost certainly fall even shorter. I'm just seeing what happens, it's an aim not a prediction. i don't know the spelling of mr dta, i was only put onto him by phone so i dont honestly know. But he's supposed to be it for dta, so if he can't make the power nobody can.
Keep us posted how you get on mate......need to get my DTA remapped sharpish to cure the motors 15MPG thirst! That Steve Greenald guy has been recommended to me as well so should do a good job
This looks like the key to me. Anyone know roughly what compression the big power Formula 3 engines were running?
greg, all the old f3 stuff ran about 13:1 and they get about 210+ from 1.6's. I was going to buy a bertils 1.6 with 11:1 that was making 197. But the shipping from california was the same price as the engine. But i agree, compression makes power. I think im going to have to add toluene to my optimax though, since i dont want to have to pull the timing too much. Sean, its not confirmed yet so i cant start screaming and shouting , i will say it's the closest a vw can get to vtec though.
jimmy8v, sounds an interesting motor, hope it gives you the results you're after Do a google search for Steve Greenald,lots of good comments on his work, especially on migweb.
Interesting it should be, don't know about the power though. But we shall see, i will, of course, keep you all up to date. Edited by: jimmy8v
*personally* i would never bother tuning a VW 8v - you can get better results for less money from the 16v (even with the poor cylinder head port design) I think the main weakness is that the VW engine has a long stroke/small bore - which ultimately limits available valve area - the 16v at least uses this area more efficiently. For those who still insist on bringing out the old *low down torque* argument in favour of 8v engines i've included the torque curve results of my 2042cc 16v engine. Remember this was not a massive spec engine - Mild Schrick cams (260 degree) Mild headwork (Blydenstein Stage 1) and a well put together bottom end built entirely from Std VW parts. K-jet injection, ignition, no K-star, V-SAM or any other trickery. The Red trace shows the torque curve from a std 1.8 bottom end with the Schrick cams and Blydenstein head (cam timing set with std pulley) The Blue trace shows 2042cc bottom end with same head and cams (valve timing setup on adjustable pulley)
dex this isn't an 8v vs 16v debate . &it's nice to see someone trying something different. I'd like to see someone findout how to & build a bergcup style engine . For those whomust know mind here is my (expensive) 8v alongside GVK's (relativlly cheap in comparison) 16v: Edited by: fthaimike
I cannot see why anyone would run an 8V engine for competition unless they had to - they are far less efficient full stop. Of course if you want to be different then fair play, I like to see different things like the next man but if its power and torque your after, then think again. Cheers Rob
Totally Agree Rob!! Although 8v engines can be made to give good power, its hideously expensive IMO.....Best off playing with one with a Supercharger fitted as standard IMO My old mk2 8v, & Fthaimikes mk1 are both fairly high spec, his being a 2.1 solid lifter & mine a 2L hydraulic, both with Pack C head, but neither crack 160BHP at Stealth.....Torquey yes, but ultimately no puff at the top end because they havent got the Valve Area [:^(] By comparison, the 16v boys with a 2L bottom end slapped on would get that as a bare minimum! No regrets from me going 16v....though il always have a soft spot for a tweaked 8v
That's what i was getting at chris...same as any later made car...the older ones will always be playing catchup & eventually it becomes impossible to match.
sorry didn't mean to try and turn it into an(other) 8v vs 16v thread... Just wanted to make it absolutely clear that before building the ultimate spec 8v engine someone needs to be really, really sure that they need/want it to be one camshaft short of set...
Well Wills (Oakgreen88) x-flow motor certainly had all the ingredients to be mental..just needed more time/development (& Money ) to edge the power/torque figures ever upwards...
