Mk1 golf DTA ECU wiring

Discussion in 'Throttle bodies & non-OEM ECUs' started by daniboy1_2_3, Jan 16, 2015.

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  1. DANIBOY1_2_3

    daniboy1_2_3 Forum Member

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    Thanks gents, well I think I'll opt for a seperate ECU relay. I'm still reading through all this information. I may well try and utilise the factory fuel pump relay socket. You mention using a 67/80/167 relay in the factory relay location for the fuel pump. Will everything still work as it should seeing as though there will be no coil supply to it now? I've no doubt missed something obvious here but things are still a little cloudy :)
    As for the coil feed ill utilise the original D/23 connection to feed my coil pack. I'm considering buying a new fusebox as I've noticed a little bit of what looks like corrosion inside although not much. And I remember with the ignition on sometimes I'd lose everything until i fiddled with the connectors at the back. I've no idea if replacement fuse boxes from vw heritage are of the same quality as OEM though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
    daniboy1_2_3, Jan 20, 2015
    #41
  2. DANIBOY1_2_3

    daniboy1_2_3 Forum Member

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    One other little query I had was regarding the d13 connection. I connect my DTA ECU fuel pump switched feed to this pin if I'm utilising the factory relay socket but I'm a little unsure how this switches the fuel pump relay looking at the vw wiring diagram. It looks like it's just a ignition switched relay but again I'm missing something obvious if you could point it out :). I am trying to follow all of what your saying by looking through the wiring diagrams and I appreciate your patience. I will keep this thread updated with my progress so that others can follow my learning curve.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2015
    daniboy1_2_3, Jan 20, 2015
    #42
  3. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Extra engine ECU 4 relay + Fuse box J17 F/P relay with the connections as in this thread and all will be fine. Make sure all connections are soldered, not just crimped and you will have years of trouble free service.
     
    Toyotec, Jan 21, 2015
    #43
  4. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    For the factory fuel pump socket with 67 type relay you need a -ve trigger wire from the ecu to D/13.

    Pin D/13 is linked to relay terminal 85 on a 67 type relay, and so it will trigger when the ecu tells it to :thumbup:
     
    rubjonny, Jan 21, 2015
    #44
  5. DANIBOY1_2_3

    daniboy1_2_3 Forum Member

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    Okay I'm with you. Just going back to an earlier post you mention feeding the fuel pump relay from the N circuit for the main fuel pump power is that right? So a jumper wire from N to terminal to power pin 30 on my fuel pump relay meaning it will still go to E14 via the S5 fuse? Is this just to give it a cleaner/dedicated supply?
    As far as wire routing goes I take it I want to keep my ECU loom separate from the vehicle loom to reduce the possibility of interference?.
    How important is it that my lambda ground shares the same ground as the ECU as I had read something about offset negative voltages caused by using different earths. Cheers :).
     
    daniboy1_2_3, Jan 21, 2015
    #45
  6. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    No the spade N is OUTPUT from the fuel pump relay, the live and ignition feeds are all supplied directly from inside the fusebox so all you need to worry about is d/13 :)

    You can use spade N to feed your fuel injector power if you like, as per some CE1 digifant looms plus how CE2 looms are wired. you could run injectors from ECU relay power too if you wanted, this is how UK CE1 digifant MK2 Golf are, but if it was me I'd use spade N :thumbup:

    E/14 is a fused output from the fuel relay, on a GTI you have 2 wires here 1 goes straight to the fuel pump the other has a male spade on the end which is used for various engine electrics depending on the spec of the car. This is an ideal spot for the lambda heater and is how a CE1 digifant would be wired, if it has a lambda. of course UK spec dont but euro do :)

    for the main ECU earth I would put this straight to the battery, the lambda earth can go to the earth claw above the fusebox or the battery -ve either is fine, both ways have been done in various cars.

    as for interference the main one is the crank sensor if you have one, vw almost if not always use shielded wires for this one so try to do the same. The lambda wire is often shielded too so try to replicate that also. Emerald wiring documentation recommends all the other sensor wires are twisted together (annoyingly, thats made my life harder on a loom I'm doing right now :lol:) so that could be an idea. The emerald doc also recommends keeping the loom away from the engine as best you can, and VW do a good job of this with the stock routing they put it along the bulkhead and down the leg away from the lump, the sensor wires then run across where needed
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
    rubjonny, Jan 21, 2015
    #46
  7. DANIBOY1_2_3

    daniboy1_2_3 Forum Member

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    I'm with you now just got mixed up with the N terminal but I follow all of what your saying now, thanks for sticking with it, you have the patience if a saint :)
    Going to look over the loom today with a view to running new feed wire for the ECU and to have a good look at all the connections we have been speaking about :)
     
    daniboy1_2_3, Jan 21, 2015
    #47
  8. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    rubjonny, Jan 21, 2015
    #48
  9. DANIBOY1_2_3

    daniboy1_2_3 Forum Member

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    Well I've located my wiring loom, bit of a tangled mess to say the least :0 maybe storing it coiled up in a bag wasn't the brightest idea!
    Looking at the fuel pump connections that attach to the pump itself they aren't looking too great. Are the terminals that go into the plugs available such as E14 as I may run a new feed wire with new terminals just to be on the safe side?.
     
    daniboy1_2_3, Jan 21, 2015
    #49
  10. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    they are indeed! I get my bits from farnell. TE/AMP multimate type III: (small ce1 pins)
    163084-1 - 0.75-1mm (2.01 2.49 insul.) 0.359 per 100 (min order 10)

    TE/AMP Mate-N-Lok: (large ce1 pins)
    925661-1 - 0.5-2mm (2.50 4.50 insul.) 0.249 per 100 (min order 10)
    350390-1 - 2-6mm (2.54-4.57 insul) 0.22 per 100 (min order 1)

    edit: if you want some latched female spades for your VW relay holders:
    925603-2 - female latched - 0.5-1.5mm (2.33.3 insul.) 0.12 per 100 (min order 100)
    160526-7 - female latched - 0.5-1.5mm (2.33.3 insul.) 0.168 per 100 (min order 10)

    5-160447-5 - female latched - 1-2.5mm (3.5 insul.) 0.135 per 100 (min order 100)
    6-160448-5 - female latched - 1-2.5mm (3.45.1 insul.) 0.134 per 100 (min order 10)

    180351-2 - female latched - 4.06.0mm (3.45.1 insul.) 0.061 per 100 (min order 1)
    180384 - female latched - 3.06.0mm (3.43-5.08 insul.) 0.092 per 100 (min order 10)

    and the standard timer pins for the vw fuse holders:
    927837-1 - female - 1-2.5mm (2.20 3.00 insul.) 0.204 per 100 (min order 10)
    927829-5 - female - 2.5-4mm (2.70 3.70 insul.) 0.368 per 100 (min order 10)

    and junior timer pins well, just becasue you'll probably need some :lol:
    927779-1 - female - 0.5-1mm 0.131 per 100 (min order 10)
    929937-3 - female - 1-2.5mm 0.188 per 100 (min order 10)
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
    rubjonny, Jan 21, 2015
    #50
  11. DANIBOY1_2_3

    daniboy1_2_3 Forum Member

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    Cripes! Thanks I'll have a rummage through and see if I can work out what all those numbers mean :)
     
    daniboy1_2_3, Jan 21, 2015
    #51
  12. DANIBOY1_2_3

    daniboy1_2_3 Forum Member

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    Slightly off track here for anyone that knows off the top of their head. What colour is the heated rear screen wire that runs with the harness to the back of the car?
    I've a choice of a chunky white wire with a male terminal or another connector with 2 pins with grn/blk and ylw/blk wires.
    I've checked the pin out and it's supposed to be the two pin connector but this doesn't tally with with the plugs on the screen loom :/
     
    daniboy1_2_3, Jan 21, 2015
    #52
  13. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    paste the 1st number into farnel to find the terminals on the site.
    0.5-1.5mm - refers to wire gauge
    (2.33.3 insul.) - refers to size of wire insulation, generally you dont need to worry about that they just fit :lol:
    0.12 per 100 (min order 100) is the price per unit if you buy 100, and the minimum order. these are probably all wrong now as prices change :lol:

    edit: its the white chunky wire :)

    green/black and yellow/black is your rear wiper motor

    the screen earth goes out the other side of the car and earths to the chassis inside the boot somewhere
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
    rubjonny, Jan 21, 2015
    #53
  14. DANIBOY1_2_3

    daniboy1_2_3 Forum Member

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    Champion, just sussed it as you posted that lol got the chunky white wire now. I seem to remember it earth at the top of the hatch. Top Man! Just going over and labelling everything that isn't slap me in the face obvious due to my sleep delete memory loss issues ha ha.
     
    daniboy1_2_3, Jan 21, 2015
    #54
  15. DANIBOY1_2_3

    daniboy1_2_3 Forum Member

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    Is there a tool you would recommend to remove the pins from the connectors without damaging them?
     
    daniboy1_2_3, Jan 21, 2015
    #55
  16. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    it may well earth at the top of the hatch actually! I'm in mk2 golf mode its my default setting :lol:

    the small ce1 pins need a good removal tool (expensive) to get them out, so unless you have to I would avoid it. you shouldnt need to remove any for this here conversion though just add one for d/13 and splice to the wires that are already there if needed (if too short, ends all grotty or whatevs)

    the larger ce1 pins are easy use a watchmaker screwdriver and poke the 2 latches in either side, you can see them in the end no problem.

    for the JT/PT/ST type pins there are tools again but you can poke at them with thin screwdrivers, or top tip was to get a metal strip out the side of a wiper arm and tickle it with a grinder till it fits :thumbup:
     
    rubjonny, Jan 21, 2015
    #56
  17. DANIBOY1_2_3

    daniboy1_2_3 Forum Member

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    Looks like I'll be putting another little shopping list together then :)
    Just been reading through my innovate wideband wiring instructions. It highlights the use of a dedicated 12V power supply not shared by the fuel pump. Can you envisage any problems with using the spare wire from E14 in this case?
    It also mentions grounding it to a solid ground source and that the battery earth would be best. Be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
     
    daniboy1_2_3, Jan 21, 2015
    #57
  18. DANIBOY1_2_3

    daniboy1_2_3 Forum Member

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    Okay after spending the last hour tracing the connections on my fuse box for my fuel pump relay I'm now more confused than ever!
    It's the ignition switching side of it that isn't making sense to me.
    There is no continuity between either relay pin 31 or 15 to pin D/13. Instead relay pin 31 goes to D22 (wiper motor main panel ground)

    Relay pin 15 goes to: D2 fuel system, fuse 17 Digi 1.
    D7 Idle stabiliser control unit, seat belt warning, oil temp gauge
    D15 Resistance wire, coil pin 15
    D6 no pin
    D23 coil terminal 15, D15, digi 1 D25 ignition cool power stage.

    No sign of D13 having any influence on anything here. Now I'm going to slowly rock myself to sleep in a dark room, with a little dribble coming out of my mouth :/
     
    daniboy1_2_3, Jan 21, 2015
    #58
  19. JON OLDS

    Jon Olds Forum Junkie

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    No way would I attempt to follow the advise on this thread. (sorry in advance.....) Why would you want to involve twenty year old connections when you could add a new wiring sub-assembly for the new ECU.
    Yours, baffled
    Jon
     
    Jon Olds, Jan 21, 2015
    #59
  20. MK1.

    mk1. Forum Junkie

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    this^^^^^^ seperate loom and relays is the best way forward or a eng loom out of a later car modified to fit you ecu,were abouts are you ?
     
    mk1., Jan 21, 2015
    #60
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