16 valve engines - OEM, tuned + race outputs

Discussion in '16-valve' started by A.N. Other, Aug 16, 2010.

  1. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    I've compiled all this lovely data on the fantastic 16v Golf engine. Production engines, respected tuner engine packages, all the way through to race.

    tn_16vheadcutaway.JPG

    Hopefully it'll get the juices flowing. There's a few gaps, as there's only so much data I can find in one hit, so let me know the missing bits please.

    The race stuff never fails the test of wistful pondering, so there's loads of it! [:D]

    This is an official People's Front for More Valves publication.

    8AS brigade: nothing to see, move along lol

    Link to 4 cyl bore & stroke combinations.




    Production 16v engines

    Engine code Years Model fitment Capacity Power Torque C/R Max revs ECU Comments
    KR 8/84-7/92 Golf/Jetta 2 1781cc 139bhp @ 6,100rpm 124 lb/ft @ 4,600rpm 10:01 7,200 K-Jetronic EU 16v without Knock and closed loop lambda. No catalyst. Best used with 4STAR/RON98 fuel.
    KR 8/84-7/92 Corrado/Passat 1781cc 136bhp @ 6,300rpm 119 lb/ft @ 4,800rpm 10:01 7,200 K-Jetronic EU 16v without Knock and closed loop lambda. No catalyst. Losses due to Corrado exhaust. Best used with 4STAR/RON98 fuel.
    PL 2/86-7/92 Golf/Jetta 2 1781cc 129bhp @ 5,800rpm (or 6,000rpm?) 121(or 4) lb/ft @ 4,250rpm 10:01 KE-Jetronic Catalyst model without KR intake cam + CIS-E fuel system, lambda sensing and knock control.
    PL 87-89 Golf/Jetta 2 1781cc 121bhp @ 5,800rpm 120 lb/ft @ 4,250rpm 10:01 KE-Jetronic, w cat, closed loop lambda, knock and evaporative system USA version of PL. Inlet cam has 0.353" of lift, 0.005" less than Europe, giving 196 duration as opposed to 208, enhancing low speed torque. Max revs 6,800.
    6A 1988 Audi 100 then 80 1984cc 140bhp @ 5,800rpm 136lb/ft @ 4,000rpm (or 134lb/ft @ 4,400rpm) 10.5:1 6,500 KE Motronic Catalyst
    9A 4/88-7/95 Corrado/Passat/Golf (USA) 1984cc 136bhp @ 5,800rpm 132 lb/ft @ 4,200rpm 10.5:1 6,500 KE Motronic Catalyst, post 94. Toyotec had one with a '373D' cylinder head sans ABF inlet cam.
    9A 89-9? Corrado/Passat/Golf (USA) 1984cc 134bhp @ 5,800rpm 133 lb/ft @ 4,400rpm 10.5:1 6,500 KE Motronic North American 9A Motronic tuned for US emissions and fuel quality.
    3G 90-90 Golf G60 Limited 1781cc 210bhp @ 6,500rpm 166/186 lb/ft @ 5,000rpm 70-off G60 Ltd model
    AAL 8/90-93 South African Mk2 Golf/Jetta 1984cc 148bhp @6,400rpm 129lb/ft@5,000rpm 10.2:1 ???? K-Jetronic Mentioned in VW cam study thread, this is the 'Spitze' engine. Unusre how many produced. More here.
    ADL 2/94-6/96 Early 6K Ibiza & Cordoba (Mk2/3) + Toledo? 1781cc 127bhp @ 5,700rpm 122lb/ft @ 4,800rpm 10.5:1 6,500 Siemens, MAP, Batch fire injectors, dizzy trigger for engine speed KR-ish short block (non-bubble) but with 6A/9A breather/oil take off assy, knock sensor + later '373D' head sans ABF intake cam.
    ACE 1/92-10/97 Audi 80 1984cc 140 bhp @ 5200rpm 134lb/ft @ 4,500rpm 10.5:1 6,500 Bosch KE-Motronic torque peaks lower than ABF due to mild inlet cam
    ABF 8/92-12/97 1H Golf/Vento (Mk3), 3A Passat, 6K Ibiza/Cordoba (Mk2/3) & Toledo 1984cc 150bhp @ 6,000rpm 133 lb/ft @ 4800rpm 10.5:1 6,950 Siemens/Temic Digifant 3.0/3.2 , MAP, 60-2 crank pickup, sequential inj. Block drilled trigger for engine speed. Powertrain N/A in North American markets.
     
  2. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Tuner 16v engines

    Tuner Conversion name Engine code Capacity Bore Stroke Power Torque C/R Comments
    ABT Tuning 180 bhp No more info
    220 bhp Turbocharged (syncro) No more info
    Automotive Developments (AmD) PCV16+ 1781cc 81mm 86.4mm 160 bhp Gas flowed head, high torque inlet cam, Sebring exhaust
    AMD 180 2000cc 180 bhp Gas flowed head, fully mapped electronic injection & ignition
    Auto Tech (USA) 9A 2057cc 84mm 92.8mm 170 bhp (150 with a std head) Mahle pistons, special head gasket + reduced height oil squirters
    BR Motorsport BRM 160 KR 1781cc 81mm 86.4mm 160 bhp
    BRM 170 KR 1870cc 83mm 86.4mm 170 bhp
    BRM 170 KR 1892cc 83.5mm 86.4mm 170 bhp 10.0:1 Schrick 260, g/flowed head & manis, reprofiled valves & seats, Mahle sports pistons
    BRM 180 9A 1984cc 82.5mm 92.8mm 180 bhp K-Jet, Schrick 260 cams (266 degrees per Fast Car, Mar 1993), reprofiled valves & seats, flowed & ported head, inlet & exh manifold, combustion chambers, single collet groove valves, larger fuel metering unit (per Fast Car, Mar 1993)
    BRM 180 9A 1984cc 82.5mm 92.8mm 205 bhp @ 6,500 rpm 163lb/ft @ 5,240rpm Weber Alpha mgt, Schrick 260 cams, modified ports, combustion chambers, single collet groove valves
    GTI Engineering PLUS-PAC KR 1781cc 81mm 86.4mm 155bhp @ 6,500rpm 129.6lb/ft @ 6,000rpm 10.5:1? C/R listed in mid-'90s GTI Eng brochure. Might be 10:1.
    ? ? 1870cc 83mm 86.4mm ?bhp ?lb/ft ? Early 1900 with 83mm bore rather than 83.5?
    RE1900 KR 1893cc 83.5mm 86.4mm ?bhp ?lb/ft 10:01
    RE2000 KR 1996cc 82mm 94.5mm 170bhp @ 6,000 rpm 158lb/ft @ 4,600rpm 10:01 Early versions to '89/'90. Tuft-rided crank, lead indium HD crank bearings, forged pistons, cut outs, gas flowed head + manis, re-profiled valve seats, uprated valve springs, modified cam timing, distributor + inj system
    RE2000 KR 1984cc 82.5mm 92.8mm ?bhp ?lb/ft KR block, no oil squirters
    RE2000 9A 1984cc 82.5mm 92.8mm ?bhp ?lb/ft Late versions
    RE2100 Club Sport KR 2058cc 84mm 92.8mm 190bhp @ 6000rpm 168lb ft @ 6000rpm 10.25:1 Schrick cams, gasflowed head, "autothermic slipper design pistons", lead indium HD crank bearings
    Oettinger 1800 E TBC PL 1781cc 143bhp @ 6500 rpm 130lb/ft @5,500rpm Catalyst model (Germany + Switzerland)
    1800 E TBC KR 1781cc 150bhp @ 6500 rpm 129lb/ft @5,500rpm Non-cat model
    ?XXXX E/16 V? Think this is 1.8 tho... KR 1781cc 162bhp @ 6800 rpm 129lb/ft @5,500rpm Inlet cam+vernier, 4-2-1 exh manifold, a new rear box + inlet system mod
    2000 E TBC PL 1996cc 82mm 94.5mm 170bhp @ 6100 rpm 150lb/ft @5,500rpm Catalyst model (Germany + Switzerland)
    2000 E 1996cc 182bhp @ 6500 rpm 151lb/ft @5,500rpm 10.5:1 or 10.7:1 Non-cat model, cylinder head machined, camshafts, matched manifolds
    TBC KR 1996cc 82mm 94.5mm 182bhp @ 6500 rpm 151lb/ft @5,500rpm likely this is the 2000E
    Techtonics KR 1870cc 83mm 86.4mm 170 bhp
    Turbo Technics KR 1800/?1900? 140bhp @ 0.4 bar or 180/8 bhp @ 0.65 bar 160lb/ft @ 3,500rpm 8.5:1 Garrett T25 water cooled turbo, two-stage boost, 5th injector, piggy back ignition retardation
    KR 1781cc 81mm 86.4mm 140-175 bhp 182lb/ft 8.5:1 Garrett T25, machined pistons, high nickel content exhaust manifold, s/s exh, 5th injector, digital control of ignition to retard timing, air-to-air intercooler, switchable 0.4 or 0.65 bar boost
    KR 1781cc 81mm 86.4mm 172bhp @ 5,500rpm 180lb/ft 8.5:1 Garrett T25, "machined pistons, shortened conrods", 5th injector controlled by Turbo Technics digital control unit, air-to-air intercooler, figures quoted at 0.65 bar boost, 0.4 bar on low boost (Fast Car, March 1993).
    TSR Cadwell KR 1900 155bhp ?lb/ft
    Snetterton KR 2000 165bhp ?lb/ft
    Thruxton Tall block 2100 170bhp ?lb/ft
     
  3. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Race 16v engines

    Car Engine code Capacity Bore Stroke Rod length Sump Year Power Torque C/R Max revs ECU Comments Builder
    Golf 2 Group A rally* KR 1781cc 81mm 86.4mm 144mm wet 1986 191-3bhp 148lb/ft 8,200 K-jetronic Std plenum Lehmann
    Golf 2 Group A rally* KR 1781cc 81mm 86.4mm 144mm wet 1987 200bhp @ 7,500rpm K-jetronic Std plenum Lehmann
    Golf 2 Super Tourisme KR 81mm Lehmann
    Golf 2 Pikes Peak KR 1781cc 81mm 86.4mm 144mm wet 1987 > 326PS @ 7,200rpm K-jetronic KKK turbo Car built in Austria
    Seat Toledo Mk1 French Supertourisme KR 84mm 90mm 282bhp Lehmann
    Golf 3 Group A* ABF 1984cc 82.5mm 92.8mm 159mm wet 1994 219bhp 173lb/ft 11.5 8,100 **** VW Digifant Std plenum Lehmann
    Golf 3 kit car** ABF 1990cc 83.9mm 90mm 160mm wet 1996 254bhp 180lb/ft 12:01 8,800**** Bosch Motronic Revs look odd - VWM misprint? Lehmann
    1997-8 280 bhp ?lb/ft**** 12.8:1 8,000**** Bosch Motronic Torque same as '96 yet power up. Fig omitted Lehmann
    Ibiza kit car** ADL 1984cc 84mm 89.5mm 149mm wet 1995 250bhp @ 7,800rpm 162 lb/ft @ 6,500 11.8:1 Magneti Marelli Phase 1 Mader
    1996 255bhp @ 7,800rpm ?lb/ft Magneti Marelli Phase 2 Mader
    1997 260bhp @ 8,400rpm ?lb/ft 8,400 Magneti Marelli Phase 3 Mader
    1997 265bhp @ 7,800rpm 159lb/ft @ 6,500 12.2:1 8,400 Magneti Marelli Phase 4 Lehmann?
    1998 270bhp ?lb/ft Magneti Marelli Phase 5 Lehmann?
    1999 285bhp ?lb/ft 8,900 Magneti Marelli Phase 6 Gabord
    2010 290bhp ?lb/ft Magneti Marelli n/a Lehmann
    Audi 80 Quattro STW*** 6A derivative 1988cc 84mm 89.7mm dry 1993 268bhp 177lb/ft @ 7,000rpm Audi Sport/Motorentechnik Kolb
    Audi 80 Competition* 6A derivative 1998cc 85mm 88.1mm dry 1994 282bhp @ 8,250?rpm 184lb/ft @ 7,000rpm Motronic MP 1.8 Audi Sport/Motorentechnik Kolb
    Audi A4 BTCC /STW*** ACE derivative 1998cc 85mm 88.1mm 152/3mm dry 1995 285bhp @ 8,250rpm 188lb/ft @ 7,000 8,500 Motronic MP 1.8 Phase 1 Audi Sport
    1996 296bhp @ 8,250rpm 188lb/ft 14.1/14.2 8,500 Phase 2 Audi Sport
    1997 305bhp @ 8,250rpm 191/2lb/ft @ 7,000rpm 14.1/14.2 8,500 Motronic MP 2.8 Phase 8, 9bhp gain over '96 due to 2 'small but signficant steps'. Audi Sport
    1998 311bhp 192lb/ft 8,500 Phase 9 Audi Sport
    Seat Cordoba WRC ABF 1995cc 83mm 92.2mm 162.5mm wet 1999 300bhp @ 5,700rpm 347lb/ft @ 3,500rpm 6,100 Magnetti Marelli MR3 Garrett turbo, 34mm restrictor Snobeck / SNBE, 21mm pin
    * Thread on Golf 2 & 3 Group A engines here
    ** Thread on Kit Car engines here
    *** Huge thread on Audi Touring Car engines here
    **** See post 17
     
  4. eatonmk2 Forum Member

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    Nice info :thumbup::clap:
     
  5. eatonmk2 Forum Member

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    Here's some old Oettinger info from Scotts of Sloane Sq.

    Oettinger GTI 16V 2000E
    1996cc
    182@6500
    0-60 6.7
    144 mhp
    36.9 mpg (fuel consumtion at 56mph, 4-star or super green lead-free) lol
    May 1990 list price 19,833.07
     
    ally likes this.
  6. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Cool, let's definitely add those. Will have a look through some books for more on those.
     
  7. geneticmaterial

    geneticmaterial Forum Member

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    :lol:
     
  8. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Chris some of the blanks filled in...



    I need to triple check some of the added details.
    All the CIS-E and KE-Motronic vehicles had cats and the potential to be run on US 91ron fuels.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
  9. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Thanks Eddie, I've updated everything in post 1.

    I've kept the ADL question over what was in the Mk1 Toledo as that car is the earliest of the lot?

    Comments for the RH column would be great, to explain torque peak points. There's only one in there any that's rubjonny's from a Google search!
     
  10. Admin Guest

    How did they raise the comp on the plus pack? I thought it was just top end tweeks, p&p wur timming etc.

    From here.
    And on that page it states the 1900 and 2000 have
    which would suggest higher comp?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2010
  11. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    I think you're right Tom. The brochure has 10.5 in it, with the rest at 10.0. They clearly have the head off it, but there is no evidence of a skim. Gasflowed manifolds, gasflowed head, narrowed valve seats, polished valves + modified timing.

    I think we change it?
     
  12. Admin Guest

    Stay with the brochure for now, maybe a question mark next to it.
     
  13. RobT

    RobT Forum Junkie

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    I dont understand how the golf was making 20ftlb more than the ibiza in 1996 from a very similar engine with similar power outputs - one of them seems unlikely
     
  14. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    I agree - the race engines table is a pieced together list from engine builder information, 'official' declarations, on-event media snippets, all the way through to third hand information on t'internet (+ scrutiny of where it came from).

    So it should be read cautiously in the detail, and caveated with those limitations, but this still doesn't detract from quite an interesting list of data. It may bring out some interesting trends but it must be viewed, as with any with any disclosure of race engine information, past, present or future, as being what people are prepared to publicise, which may of course guard the information they don't want people to know.

    Then add in the non-technical wordsmithing numpties in works team PR departments, and the information is in danger of becoming very sanitised by the time it's released.

    It's further complicated during phases of diffferent engines being experimented with in different cars.

    eg 1 UK Ibizas in 1999 had 2 - 3 engines on the go at once, but the top of the tree was the 285bhp motor (the one they were R&D-ing), so it gets the mention.

    eg 2 I'm reliably informed the Audi BTCC/STW engines had 9 phases, but I just haven't got all the data, so it's summarised to 3 rows with the main increments.
     
  15. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    Or maybe a sneaky bit of marketing... the standard alloy pistons have valve clearance cut outs too ;) maybe they skimmed the head 0.5 mm and took the piston cuts a little bit deeper?
     
  16. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Clearly whatever difference there were relates to inlets, rod lengths & block height discussed here

    FWIW, I've got an Evo 2 output in privateers hands, showing 262 bhp and 164 lb/ft. It's definitely a kitcar motor, I've pictures of the engine out of the car. Builder/rebuilder not stated. That's 2005, but could be tallied with 1997 outputs.

    The Golf data simply came off the face of a 10/1996 kitcar manual, which stated 260PS (254bhp)/245NM. No other sources.

    Two years later, 10/1998, the kitcar manual still said 260PS/245NM, but by 1997 the UK VWM media PR was quoting 280+bhp, suggesting that VW weren't too concerned about keeping that kitcar manual figure up to date. Was it right in the first place? We have to assume it had a basis. Note also how max revs were 8,800 (10/96) and 8,000 by 10/98. It's tricky to follow that information unless one is a misprint.

    This is why I've dropped the 1997-98 torque figure (even though the 10/98 manual says 245NM) and put a question mark as it cannot be the same after 2 years of competition and a 26+bhp hike. Judging from the way the Ibiza became less tractable as they got the last drops of power out of it in 1999, it's difficult to know where the Golf was by 1998.
     
  17. Nellis Forum Member

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    AAL engine was/is 1984cc; not 1781cc. OK, I'm going on memory here now.... Power 110kW (150 bhp approx), 175N.m (130ft-lbs approx) 10.5 CR, KR cams, K-jet, "short" block. I hope to collect a sub assy within the next few days. Might post a pic or two then.. [8D]
     
  18. altern8 Forum Junkie

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    very good work chris
     
  19. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Thanks Craig.

    Great, cheers for that - updating now. When was this engine made and in what cars?
     
  20. Nellis Forum Member

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    Chris, I can't remember the exact years; however, it was Golf and Jetta 2 over here. The Golf and Jetta 3 never had the 16V our side; either 2.0 8v or 2.8 12v.
     

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