I think a separate thread on setting up a car to run on race rubber would be very welcome - there are plenty of trackdayers and potential novice racers on here who would appreciate the insight and benefit from it.... including me Henry... I think a Golf GTI Race Car setup thread would be really interesting too, if you fancy kicking that off...
Mike, from what we've mentioned privately, I've been meaning to get round to the above, I'm just off to the ring till Sunday however I'd love it to be in a Mk2 16v Race set up direction myself!
I think that would be a great discussion to kick off, as there are lots of people on here with good experience of setting these cars up... I'm not including myself in that group, btw!
You'll just get a lot of people trying to throw swerve balls to fellow competitors! Such is the beautiful nature of competition!
It may be a bit pointless for most people outside the championship to know what the Mk2 race cars are running, surely? They are compromised in so many ways, by the regulations. Even the most basic trackday cars seem to have upgraded anti roll bars and have more camber than the race cars are allowed. You can buy so many cheap modifications that the championship does not allow (ARB, rear toe/camber shims, Top mounts etc), and this would most likely mean you would not want to run with the same set-up.. (I am not criticising the regs, just noting that your ideal set up would be different if you did not have to adhere to them - even on a tight budget)
Cynic I don't suppose people would give away the fine details of their setup, but in general I find the Golf GTI Racing crowd are pretty open about the rough setup that they're on.
You're right Mike, I'll tell anyone that asks I'm running 10psi all round 4 degrees of toe in and +3 Camber on standard springs with top adjustable Koni's.
There is nothing special about slicks, they just have more grip over a trackday tyre once they are at their designed working temp. If they dont get to temp, or go over temp, they are worse than trackday tyres which have a wider operating window generally. Best bet is buy some second hand or from a tyre place having a sale / clear out. Problem with second hand is that sometimes you get a bargain, sometimes they are already dead. If you shop around, you can get them new for less money than trackday tyres. Once you get the right compound and feel the grip coming in, they are great, much more slideable and controllable than a road tyre. When you get to this point, its worth thinking about your setup as you will be making more corner grip so will need more roll resistance, arbs or springs. There is nothing at all to fear from them, but just take your time and feel for the grip coming in, how quick this happens depends on the compound, can be anything from immediate to three laps. Pressures, ask the manufacturer for recommendations, usually about right.
I was thinking that the principles are the same, but the devil's in the detail. More grip means you need stiffer suspension, maybe more camber.... I expect there's a lot of detailed knowledge out there about which setups people are running on certain cars, spring rates, toe, camber, etc.
Also....theres radials and crossplies. Crossplies slide very progressively but imo dont suit saloons so well. I prefer radials which are not as communicative, but have more grip in the limit.
It is, but for initial tries, if you are using trackday tyres, no different, for radials ar least. Crossplies are a different beast. Stick em on, go build up speed lap by lap, feel for the grip...if the tyres are from a similar car used for a race series, clio cup or suchlike, they will be fine Once you have destroyed a couple of sets, think about set up
I would just like to say thanks to everyone who has given advice in this thread. It's all be great info that not only I can use, But lots of other people in the same position as me. I look forward to the tyre thread Benny Update So, 23/11/2012 Between the weather in this area there was one day of sunshine to be had yet The track started out wet and was drying but very slowly. It was about lunchtime before a good dry line appeared. I went out a few times in the wet on the R888's so I could feel the edge of grip and lost the back end a little on a twisty bit but managed to get it back by planting my foot, Not on camera sadly Setup wise I had a little play. Harder on the front made it bouncy. If you watch the new video compared to the old one there is a tight bit by the big blue cone. I was able to get the power down much better on about 35% soft coming out of this corner. On the 595's it just bounced round this corner and span them up. I was pretty happy with the feel of the car. There is slight rubbing on one of the tyres but only slightly. Pressure wise it was running 25 cold (28 hot) front, 28 Cold (32 hot) Rear. The front could have come up a bit but I ran out of time as it got dark so early! There was a little squeal from the fronts when you put too much lock into the steering. I tried to back it off every time I heard the squeal and not give it so much next time. It definitely works but hard to put into practice! I firmly glued my right hand to the 3 o'clock position on the wheel. No shuffling here!lol I think if it had been dryer then I would have gone harder on the front and given it a bit more pressure but overall it was a great day. This video is some of my fastest laps. I was being followed by an Orange Rover so pushing it a little more then I normally would, It was prepped and had a great few laps with him. We spoke after about how fun it was [video=youtube_share;WJd5iOvtIC0]http://youtu.be/WJd5iOvtIC0[/video] Here are a couple of photos I took, Im miles away from the track so they are pretty bad. Front wheel inside the arch. Back wheel in the air Its a bit dirty, And that was early in the day!
Much better technique Matt Great to see. A different driver out there. Much Smoother and better general car control, added with a better handling car the improvement looks huge from the vids. A pleasure to watch. Try looking through the corners and plan you lines from one to the next, hulavinton has a lot of technical sections and work on this, where you need the car for the next section. Also the car looks much more balanced by dropping the rear height by 20mm its not so front heavy and its not diving so much. But you still could go lower at the back if you have the room. If you want it corner weighted then Book it in at Turner Race Developments and i will drop in. Also you definitely need higher spring rates or fit an uprated anti roll bar (cheap option) The cambers and Toe out seems to be doing the job your hitting apexs better and turn in looks sharper. All due to increased front end grip. But better management of weight transfer will reap more rewards. One thing try and get on the power much earlier and on turn in, you can use the diff more to attack the apex's and get the nose pointed in the direction you want to go If your running on 888s then id up the pressure all round as well. 888s seem to work better with high pressures compared to a lot of tyres. Great to see the development
Ah man, Not more moneylol I cant put any more into it for the time being. Moving house so the time and money will be taken up in that over the Winter/Spring. The only thing i have money left for is welding the jacking points as that needs to be done! There is quite a thick ARB on there already, I will measure it tomorrow though. Also why do you say the dampers need to be rebuilt if adding stiffer springs?
Because the damper wont be able to 'damp' the higher spring rate effectivley. damper droop length is a critcal factor that we need to take into account here was well.
